On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:15:34 -0700, Rudy Canoza
<pipes@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>Starkiller wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 11:54:43 -0700, Rudy Canoza
>> <pipes@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>> Starkiller wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:08:59 -0700, Rudy Canoza
>>>> <pipes@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Starkiller wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 03:16:56 -0700 (PDT), Mack the Knife
>>>>>> <bulldog101750@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 9, 10:54 am, "Eddie Haskell" <k...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SK...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> news:ukf824hf05636lsckig3c76amsa0torm1m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 May 2008 02:51:13 -0700 (PDT), traveler
<Vallec...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 4:05 pm, duke <duckgumb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 15:06:23 -0700, The Pope Wears Prada
>>>>>>>>>>> <The_Pope@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gas prices at the pump do not yet reflect the current price
of oil on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the world's commodities market. The price of oil has risen so
fast in
>>>>>>>>>>>> such a short period of time, from $60 a barrel at the
beginning of 2007
>>>>>>>>>>>> to over $120 a barrel now. The gas that is being sold today
reflects
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> price paid for oil on the futures market many months ago when
gas was
>>>>>>>>>>>> between $60 and $90 a barrel. As the months roll by, the
price of gas
>>>>>>>>>>>> will reflect a higher and higher price of oil. It is
inexorable.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Expect $5 a gallon gas by year's end and $6 a gallon by the
end of
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2009.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And no amount of drilling in ANWR or anywhere else will
reverse this
>>>>>>>>>>>> price rise.
>>>>>>>>>>> But drilling off the Calee-fornia and west coast, the
Massachusetts and
>>>>>>>>>>> east
>>>>>>>>>>> coast, the Florida coasts will definitely put us in self
sufficiency.
>>>>>>>>>>> However, the 'rats in these area reject drilling because their
ocean
>>>>>>>>>>> views will
>>>>>>>>>>> be tainted.
>>>>>>>>>> He calls "rats" the people who actually care about the
environmental
>>>>>>>>>> destruction left in the wake of the oil boys, who don't give a
good
>>>>>>>>>> goddamn about anything, who ruin everything they touch, and who
are
>>>>>>>>>> the very people becoming unimaginably wealthy by saddling the
rest of
>>>>>>>>>> us with their phony price of oil and gas. When these bastards
start
>>>>>>>>>> filing into prison, we will know that something FINALLY is
being done.
>>>>>>>>> How is the price of oil phony when it is the same worldwide?
>>>>>>>>> Why is it that you spoiled little assholes think that the US
deserves
>>>>>>>>> a better price than everyone else in the entire world?
>>>>>>>>> And while your at it I'm sure you can give us a long list of all
the
>>>>>>>>> things that "big oil" has ruined yes?
>>>>>>>> Democrats oppose increasing domestic production, new refineries,
ANWR and
>>>>>>>> nuclear power and then blubber and moan about high gas prices and
blame
>>>>>>>> everybody but themselves. They're like little idiot children that
cause
>>>>>>>> suffering for the adults.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Eddie Haskell- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>> I'm not a Democrat, I'm an ex-Republican and an Independent. I
got
>>>>>>> sick of morons like you taking over the Republican Party. If you
>>>>>>> think the high price of gasoline has anything to do with any of
the
>>>>>>> things you mention, then you are even dumber than you sound.
Catch a
>>>>>>> clue, son. Go to college.
>>>>>> Folks in Venezuela, Iran, Kuwait etc pay only pennies a gallon
because
>>>>>> their countries produce more oil than they can use themselves.
>>>>> Folks in Venezuela, Iran, Kuwait pay pennies a gallon because their
>>>>> governments heavily subsidize the stuff.
>>>> Regardless, they produce enough that THEY AREN'T PAYING $120 a barrel
>>>> for it. They're the ones getting paid $120 a barrel. Take Kuwait for
>>>> example.
>>> Of course they pay $120 a barrel for it, you idiot. Don't you know
>>> *anything* about economics?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Kuwait has proven crude oil reserves of about 96 billion barrels (15
>>>> km³), i.e. about 10% of world reserves. Petroleum accounts for nearly
>>>> half of GDP, 90% of ex****t revenues, and 5% of government income.
>>>> Kuwait lacks water and has practically no arable land, thus
preventing
>>>> development of agriculture. With the exception of fish, it depends
>>>> almost wholly on food im****ts. About 75% of potable water must be
>>>> distilled or im****ted. Higher oil prices reduced the budget deficit
>>>> from $5.5 billion to $3 billion in 1999.
>>> The Kuwaiti government's revenues due to oil are a lot higher than 5%.
>>> The GDP of Kuwait was $137 billion in 2007, and government revenue was
>>> $33.6 billion. Oil and petrochemicals-related activity account for
95%
>>> of GDP.
>>
>> So it's gone up in 7 years.
>
>The percentage of the Kuwaiti economy based on petroleum has always been
>extremely high.
>
>
>>>
>>>> The government has sponsored many social welfare, public works, and
>>>> development plans financed with oil and investment revenues. Among
the
>>>> benefits for Kuwaiti citizens are retirement income, marriage
bonuses,
>>>> housing loans, virtually guaranteed employment, free medical
services,
>>>> and education at all levels.Kuwait also provides fully paid
>>>> scholar****ps for students wi****ng to study abroad. Kuwaiti government
>>>> also will send citizens abroad for treatment if the treatment is not
>>>> available in Kuwait. Foreign nationals residing in Kuwait obtain
some,
>>>> but not all, of the welfare services. The right to own stock in
>>>> publicly traded companies, real estate, and banks or a majority
>>>> interest in a business is limited to Kuwaiti citizens and citizens of
>>>> GCC states under limited circumstances. Kuwaiti citizens and
residents
>>>> enjoy 0% income tax.
>>>>
>>>> They get that from their income from petroleum.
>>> Right. And if they sold all their oil at world prices, they'd have
more
>>> revenue to spend on those other things. Kuwaitis are not paying
>>> "pennies" per gallon of gasoline: that may be what they pay
>>> out-of-pocket, but they pay a lot more in the form of forgone income.
>>
>> They aren't hurting because of it. And since there, the government IS
>> the oil company, the only forgone income is that which the government
>> "could" be making.
>
>Making and spending on their citizens. So, the citizens are paying for
>their cheap gas in the form of other things they're not getting.
You mean making from the citizens right? You're saying that since KOC
isn't charging it's own people the same as we pay then those same
people are somehow getting ****ed over?
That somehow by not taking a big profit at the pump and only charging
enough to cover the costs that the Kuwait people are being screwed?
>
>> Call that a subsidy if you want
>
>It's a subsidy.
>
>
>> but they still pay
>> dirt cheap gasoline prices because they are a producer first.
>
>They pay cheap prices at the pump, but it's still costing them the world
>price. And it isn't because they're a producer. *Any* government could
>subsidize its gasoline prices to citizens if it wanted to do so.
Sure can. And most would have to find a way to pay for that subsidy
as in taxing the citizens. Kuwait citizens pay no taxes thanks to oil
revenues.
And they do not pay the world price for their own oil. If you have
evidence that they do then post it or STFU.
>
>
>> And it's just p[lain hilarious that you're trying your damndest to
>> convince us that a government is subsidizing itself.
>
>Not itself, you ****wit - its citizens. You really are stupid.
So who is the government paying the subsidy to. In order for the
government to subsidize something it means they are paying for
something in lieu of the consumer paying it. So who they paying?
KOC? KOC is the Kuwait government. It is subsidized only in the
sense that the oil company is owned and operated by the government.
Technically you can call it a subsidy but it costs them nothing out of
pocket.
>
>
>> In Kuwait the government is the oil company. Has been since 1975.
>> And they make around a 488% profit off of oil.
>> http://www.oil-price.net/
>>>
>>>> Do you think that they would be pumping gas at their pumps for 60 or
>>>> 70 cents per gallon if they weren't pumping 2 million barrels a day
>>>> for ex****t?
>>> They pay a lot more than 60 or 70 cents per gallon for gasoline, even
if
>>> that's all they're paying at the pump. They're paying the difference
>>> between their retail price and the rest-of-world price in the form of
>>> forgone income. If you knew anything about economics, you'd know
this.
>>
>> Granted they are most likely paying a little over a buck a gallon if
>> they are keeping up with the other OPEC nations in the region. The 70
>> cent figure came from a CNN Money Page from last year.
>>
>> They're paying for the same thing per gallon that everyone else does.
>
>The same thing, and ultimately at the same price.
No they aren't. Your claim that not charging someone as high of a
price as possible for a commodity equates to money lost is ludicrous.
You keep saying that the Kuwait government should make a profit from
the same people that are benefiting allready from oil profits in order
to give them benefits. Benefits that they can afford themselves
unless you want to charge them out the ass for gasoline just so the
government could give them the same things. You keep implying that
the Kuwait people are somehow disadvantaged because their own
government isn't trying to make a bundle off of them at the gas pump.
About the only thing they don't get as a result of their oil is a
garaunteed free paycheck from the government to sit on their ass.
Their government doesn't charge them more at the pump because they
don't need to in order to provide the benefits that they do.
Read the paragraph above from a previous post describing the benefits
that the Kuwaitees receive from their government and tell us just how
they are being shorted. Explain just how exactly they are paying some
detrimental price for not paying the full world market price at the
pump.
>
>
>> They're paying a minimum of the break even price of [snip economic
horse****]
>
>They're paying the full price.
Liar. I showed a legitimate source. You've shown nothing.
The break even price is what it is and your snipping it out does not
change that fact. KOC incurs a cost of around $17 a barrel to get it.
If you know that to be incorrect then show us. So far you've done
nothing but run your little virtual mouth.
And I'm still waiting on your convincing argument that the countries
that are the major producers of oil don't pay less for gasoline.
If the US refineries could buy all the crude they needed for $17 a
barrel then we would be paying just a bit more at the pump than the
Kuwaitees due to taxes.
As far as your idiotic idea that everyone everywhere in the world is
paying the same price for every barrel that comes out of the ground, I
suggest you read here:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/05/news/companies/exxon_oil/index.htm?postversion=2007110613
The oil that Exxon. for example, pumps out of it's own wells doesn't
cost Exxon near the $120 plus per barrel that it is sold for on the
market. Problem is Big Oil only pumps about half of what it refines
itself. The rest they have to buy on the market from foreign sources.
If Exxon were paying the full market price for every barrel it refined
then we'd allready be seeing $6 a gallon gasoline in the US and other
countries would be looking at even higher prices.
There is no way in hell that any profit could be made from a retail
price of $3.50 a gallon on average for the finished product from the
raw material that is currently selling for $2.97 a gallon roughly on
the open market.($125 per 42 gallon barrel).
Just like KOC Exxon is not charging itself any $125 a barrel for its
own oil that it pumps from its own wells.
Too bad you are apparently incapable of doing the math.
If Exxon were indeed paying the full price for each and every barrel
it refined and only charge $3.50 a gallon for gas at the pump then
they would be taking a loss with every gallon sold. The taxes plus
the cost of the oil alone is more than $3.50 a gallon and that is
wihtout considering that you don't get 42 gallons of gasoline from 42
gallons of crude. Gasoline prices would have been $3.50 a gallon
before it ever reached $100 a barrel if they paid full price for all
the oil they refine. By your logic someone must be subsidizing our
gasoline prices in order for them to be as low as they are yes?
Learn a bit about how the oil business works before displaying your
complete ignorance of it.
Regards
Starkiller
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