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>For you or any civilized person who listens and read about the Armenian =
genocide would instantly condemns the killings and would have no doubt =
this=20
being a genocide. But when it comes to the turk, this is impossible, the =
language they use would make it impossible for them to grasp even simple =
facts. Any time you try to translate anyting to turkish language words =
will=20
lose their meanin.
Interesting observation.
Last week on the Charlie Rose show (TV channel 5 in New York )
the Prime minister of Turkey T. Erdogan in a live interview with =
Charlie,
said...".There is no Historical Archaeological evidence of an Armenian =
Genocide !"
I always thought that archaeological History is mostly ...the record of =
the rocks
Xtes-00k
"Ali Asker" <pasa_asker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message =
news:ruvPi.28670$aN2.12075@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Macjoubert" <macjoubert@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message=20
news:1192113331.997367.76610@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Oct 10, 10:30 pm, Diogenes <cdho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:11:37 +0100, "Agamemnon"
>>
>>
>>
>> <agamem...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> >US lawmakers back Armenian 'genocide' bill
>> >2 hours ago
>>
>> >WA****NGTON (AFP) - US lawmakers defied strident warnings by =
President=20
>> >George
>> >W. Bush and Turkey by voting Wednesday to label the Ottoman =
Empire's=20
>> >World
>> >War I massacre of Armenians as "genocide."
>>
>> >To cheers and applause from emotional Armenians, including elderly
>> >wheelchair-bound survivors, the House of Representatives Foreign =
Affairs
>> >Committee voted for the resolution by 27 votes to 21.
>>
>> >Bush and top lieutenants earlier were unusually blunt in attacking =
the
>> >non-binding resolution, warning that it would trigger Turkish =
reprisals=20
>> >and
>> >undermine US efforts in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East.
>>
>> >The vote "may do grave harm to US-Turkish relations and to US =
interests=20
>> >in
>> >Europe and the Middle East," State Department spokesman Sean =
McCormack=20
>> >said.
>>
>> >"Nor will it improve Turkish-Armenian relations or advance=20
>> >reconciliation
>> >among Turks and Armenians over the terrible events of 1915," he =
said.
>>
>> >The measure is likely to be sent on to a vote in the full =
Democratic-led
>> >House, where a majority has already signed on to the resolution. A =
>> >parallel
>> >measure is in the Senate pipeline.
>>
>> >Bryan Ardouny, executive director of the Armenian Assembly of =
America,
>> >lauded "a historic day" after the committee's vote.
>>
>> >"It is long past time for the US government to acknowledge and =
affirm=20
>> >this
>> >horrible chapter of history -- the first genocide of the 20th =
century=20
>> >and a
>> >part of history that we must never forget," he said.
>>
>> >The text says the killings of up to 1.5 million Armenians was a=20
>> >"genocide"
>> >that should be acknowledged fully in US foreign policy towards =
Turkey,=20
>> >along
>> >with "the consequences of the failure to realize a just =
resolution."
>>
>> >While the American-Armenian community celebrated, Turkish =
President=20
>> >Abdullah
>> >Gul denounced the vote as "unacceptable" and accused the House =
members=20
>> >of
>> >sacrificing US interests to "petty games of domestic politics."
>>
>> >Turkey's ambassador to Wa****ngton, Nabi Sensoy, told AFP the vote =
was=20
>> >"very
>> >disappointing" and called on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to refrain =
from
>> >bringing it to a full vote.
>>
>> >Sensoy, who has personally lobbied more than 100 House members =
against=20
>> >the
>> >resolution, added that "those who said it won't do any harm, we =
will=20
>> >have to
>> >wait and see."
>>
>> >Bush said the resolution would do "great harm" to ties with =
Turkey, a
>> >Muslim-majority member of NATO whose territory is a crucial =
transit=20
>> >point
>> >for US supplies bound for Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>> >According to the Armenians, 1.5 million of their kinsmen were =
killed=20
>> >from
>> >1915 to 1923 under an Ottoman Empire campaign of de****tation and =
murder=20
>> >that
>> >later encouraged Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's Holocaust against the =
Jews.
>>
>> >Rejecting the genocide label, Turkey argues that 250,000 to =
500,000
>> >Armenians and at least as many Turks died in civil strife when =
Armenians
>> >took up arms for independence in eastern Anatolia during the war.
>>
>> >Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert =
Gates=20
>> >also
>> >denounced the measure before the hearing, after veiled threats =
from=20
>> >Ankara
>> >that US access to a sprawling air base in southern Turkey could be =
>> >denied.
>>
>> >But despite the warnings, the resolution's backers warned the =
issue=20
>> >could
>> >not be ignored as they drew parallels to the Holocaust and the=20
>> >present-day
>> >bloodshed in the Sudanese region of Darfur.
>>
>> >"We've been told the timing is bad," Democratic House member Gary=20
>> >Ackerman
>> >said in an emotional hearing that lasted nearly four hours. "But =
the=20
>> >timing
>> >was bad for the Armenian people in 1915."
>>
>> >Republican Representative Christopher Smith said the resolution =
was not=20
>> >a
>> >slight on modern Turkey, adding: "Friends don't let friends commit =
>> >crimes
>> >against humanity."
>>
>> >Republican lawmaker Dan Burton, however, said passage of the =
genocide
>> >resolution could endanger US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>> >"We're in the middle of two wars. We have troops out there who are =
at=20
>> >risk.
>> >And we're talking about kicking an ally in the teeth. It is =
crazy."
>>
>> >Gates said that about 70 percent of all Iraq-bound US air cargo, =
95=20
>> >percent
>> >of tough new mine-resistant vehicles and one-third of the =
military's=20
>> >fuel
>> >transit through Turkey.
>>
>> >US commanders "believe, clearly, that access to airfields and to =
the=20
>> >roads
>> >and so on in Turkey would be very much put at risk if this =
resolution=20
>> >p*****
>> >and the Turks react as strongly as we believe they will," he said.
>>
>> >FACTBOX: Background to Turkish Armenian massacres dispute
>> >Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:53pm EDT
>>
>> >(Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs =
Committee
>> >passed a symbolic resolution on Wednesday calling the 1915 =
massacre of
>> >Armenians genocide, despite White House warnings it would damage
>> >U.S.-Turkish ties.
>>
>> >Here are some key facts about the issue:
>>
>> >* THE BACKGROUND:
>>
>> >-- In the late 19th century the Ottoman Empire's Armenian =
minority,
>> >numbering an estimated 2 million, was encouraged by exiled groups =
in the
>> >United States, Geneva and in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, to =
assert=20
>> >their
>> >nationalism.
>>
>> >-- Repression by Ottoman irregulars, mainly Kurds, led to the =
massacre=20
>> >of
>> >some 30,000 Armenians in eastern Anatolia in 1894-1896. Several =
thousand
>> >more were killed in Constantinople in August 1896 after Armenian=20
>> >extremists
>> >seized the Ottoman Bank to draw attention to their cause.
>>
>> >-- Their massacres were halted after the Great Powers threatened =
to
>> >intervene.
>>
>> >* WHAT HAPPENED IN 1915:
>>
>> >-- As the Ottomans fought Russian forces in eastern Anatolia =
during=20
>> >World
>> >War One, many Armenians formed partisan groups to assist the =
invading
>> >Russian armies.
>>
>> >-- On April 24, 1915, Turkey arrested and killed hundreds of =
Armenian
>> >intelligentsia. In May of that year Ottoman commanders began mass
>> >de****tation of Armenians from eastern Turkey thinking they might =
assist
>> >Russian invaders.
>>
>> >-- Thousands were marched from the Anatolian borders toward Syria =
and
>> >Mesopotamia (now Iraq) and Armenians say some 1.5 million died =
either in
>> >massacres or from starvation or deprivation as they were marched =
through=20
>> >the
>> >desert.
>>
>> >* TURKEY'S VIEW:
>>
>> >-- Turkey has always denied there was a systematic campaign to=20
>> >annihilate
>> >Armenians, saying that thousands of Turks and Armenians died in=20
>> >inter-ethnic
>> >violence as the Ottoman Empire started to collapse and fought a =
Russian
>> >invasion of its eastern provinces during World War One.
>>
>> >-- The modern Turkish republic was established in 1923 after the =
Ottoman
>> >empire collapsed.
>>
>> Henry Morgenthau was an eyewitness to the Armenian Genocide. You =
can
>> read his chilling account of this monumental crime=20
>> atwww.armenian-genocide.org/statement_morgenthau.html.
>>
>> Morgenthau just happened to be U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman =
Empire
>> from 1913 to 1916.
>>
>> The United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of =
the
>> Crime of Genocide describes genocide as "acts committed with intent =
to
>> destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or
>> religious group."
>>
>> Between 1915 and 1923 the Ottoman government systematically =
murdered
>> 1.5 MILLION Armenians out of a pre-1915 population of ~2.5 million.
>> The remainder were de****ted or fled for their lives. By 1923 the
>> Armenian population in areas controlled by Turkey had been =
expunged.
>> Does massacring 60% of an ethnic/religious group and driving the
>> remainder into exile possibly meet the definition of "genocide"? Or =
is
>> it not really "genocide", since 40% of them somehow managed to =
escape
>> with their lives? Truth always comes at a price, but the cost of
>> falsehood and deceit is even higher. And as long as the Turkish
>> government continues to"lie and deny" the reality of the Armenian
>> genocide it cannot be accepted and respected as a mature and
>> responsible member of the community of nations. And if we let our
>> country act as an "enabler" in this dance of deceit and denial then =
we
>> surrender any moral authority to condemn the crime of genocide
>> elsewhere in the world.
>> ----
>> Diogenes (cdho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
>>
>> The wars are long, the peace is frail
>> The madmen come again . . . .
>
> It makes no difference whether the Ottoman Empire exists or not, the
> people do, they were Turks and they are Turks now, and an arrogant
> government is forbidding recalcitrance which is in itself shameful.
> No one is blaming the current crop of Turks for what happened, but
> just acknowledgment of the crime by a predecessor government.
> Similarly the 3rd Reich doesn't exist, but Germans still hold a
> respectful view towards the Holocaust.
The problem with your statements above reflex the lay man who is =
civilized=20
and mature enough to accept their own fault and applogise for it.=20
Unfortunately we are talking turkeys in here and neither they have the =
brain=20
or honour to recognise their wrong doings. This is exactly why turkey =
is=20
still recognised as thirth world country who's democracy, human =
rights,=20
economy etc, lags years of any given EU states.
I want to specify the root cause of the problem turkeys denial of all =
their=20
genocides which they have brutally commited (Greeks, Pontians, Kurds, =
Armenians, Arabs, Assyrians, Keldanis, Surriyanis, etc,.). Whether you =
beileve it or not but only 9% of the population in tukey have nothing =
to do=20
with central asian people (turks). 91% of the people in turkey either=20
Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Pontians, Arabs, Assyrians, Albenians, =
Serbians=20
etc,. Every single ethnicities in turkey have to deny of their own =
roots and=20
call themselves "turks, proud turks". These people don't even =
understand=20
each other because of the language barrier. I mentioned this in my =
another=20
post but shortly turkish language with its weak structure made =
everyone in=20
turkey stupid and ignorant. What do you expect if you use the centarl =
asian=20
gramer with Arabic, Greek, Kurdish, Armenian, Assyrian etc,. words. =
This is=20
exactly as same as a foreign national speaking english by using their =
own=20
grammer.
For you or any civilized person who listens and read about the =
Armenian=20
genocide would instantly condemns the killings and would have no doubt =
this=20
being a genocide. But when it comes to the turk, this is impossible, =
the=20
language they use would make it impossible for them to grasp even =
simple=20
facts. Any time you try to translate anyting to turkish language words =
will=20
lose their meanin.
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>>For you or=20
any civilized person who listens and read about the Armenian =
<BR>genocide would=20
instantly condemns the killings and would have no doubt this <BR>being a =
genocide. But when it comes to the turk, this is impossible, the =
<BR>language=20
they use would make it impossible for them to grasp even simple =
<BR>facts. Any=20
time you try to translate anyting to turkish language words will =
<BR>lose their=20
meanin.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Interesting=20
observation.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Last week on the Charlie =
Rose show (TV=20
channel 5 in New York )</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>the Prime minister of =
Turkey T.=20
Erdogan in a live interview with Charlie,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3><FONT =
face=3DArial> said...".<STRONG>There is=20
no <U>Historical Archaeological</U> evidence of an Armenian Genocide=20
!"</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I always thought that archaeological History is =
mostly=20
....the record of the rocks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial>Xtes-00k</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ali Asker" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:pasa_asker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">pasa_asker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:ruvPi.28670$aN2.12075@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">news:ruvPi.28670=
$aN2.12075@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...</DIV><BR>"Macjoubert"=20
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:macjoubert@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">macjoubert@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> wrote=20
in message <BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:1192113331.997367.76610@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">news:1=
192113331.997367.76610@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...<BR>>=20
On Oct 10, 10:30 pm, Diogenes <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:cdho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">cdho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>=20
wrote:<BR>>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:11:37 +0100,=20
"Agamemnon"<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:agamem...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">agamem...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>=
>=20
wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> >US lawmakers back Armenian =
'genocide'=20
bill<BR>>> >2 hours ago<BR>>><BR>>> =
>WA****NGTON (AFP)=20
- US lawmakers defied strident warnings by President <BR>>>=20
>George<BR>>> >W. Bush and Turkey by voting Wednesday to =
label the=20
Ottoman Empire's <BR>>> >World<BR>>> >War I massacre =
of=20
Armenians as "genocide."<BR>>><BR>>> >To cheers and =
applause=20
from emotional Armenians, including elderly<BR>>> =
>wheelchair-bound=20
survivors, the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs<BR>>>=20
>Committee voted for the resolution by 27 votes to=20
21.<BR>>><BR>>> >Bush and top lieutenants earlier were=20
unusually blunt in attacking the<BR>>> >non-binding =
resolution,=20
warning that it would trigger Turkish reprisals <BR>>>=20
>and<BR>>> >undermine US efforts in Iraq, Afghanistan and =
the=20
Middle East.<BR>>><BR>>> >The vote "may do grave harm =
to=20
US-Turkish relations and to US interests <BR>>> =
>in<BR>>>=20
>Europe and the Middle East," State Department spokesman Sean =
McCormack=20
<BR>>> >said.<BR>>><BR>>> >"Nor will it =
improve=20
Turkish-Armenian relations or advance <BR>>>=20
>reconciliation<BR>>> >among Turks and Armenians over the =
terrible=20
events of 1915," he said.<BR>>><BR>>> >The measure is =
likely to=20
be sent on to a vote in the full Democratic-led<BR>>> >House, =
where a=20
majority has already signed on to the resolution. A <BR>>>=20
>parallel<BR>>> >measure is in the Senate=20
pipeline.<BR>>><BR>>> >Bryan Ardouny, executive =
director of the=20
Armenian Assembly of America,<BR>>> >lauded "a historic day" =
after=20
the committee's vote.<BR>>><BR>>> >"It is long past =
time for=20
the US government to acknowledge and affirm <BR>>> =
>this<BR>>>=20
>horrible chapter of history -- the first genocide of the 20th =
century=20
<BR>>> >and a<BR>>> >part of history that we must =
never=20
forget," he said.<BR>>><BR>>> >The text says the =
killings of up=20
to 1.5 million Armenians was a <BR>>> >"genocide"<BR>>> =
>that should be acknowledged fully in US foreign policy towards =
Turkey,=20
<BR>>> >along<BR>>> >with "the consequences of the =
failure=20
to realize a just resolution."<BR>>><BR>>> >While the=20
American-Armenian community celebrated, Turkish President <BR>>> =
>Abdullah<BR>>> >Gul denounced the vote as "unacceptable" =
and=20
accused the House members <BR>>> >of<BR>>> =
>sacrificing US=20
interests to "petty games of domestic =
politics."<BR>>><BR>>>=20
>Turkey's ambassador to Wa****ngton, Nabi Sensoy, told AFP the vote =
was=20
<BR>>> >"very<BR>>> >disappointing" and called on =
House=20
Speaker Nancy Pelosi to refrain from<BR>>> >bringing it to a =
full=20
vote.<BR>>><BR>>> >Sensoy, who has personally lobbied =
more than=20
100 House members against <BR>>> >the<BR>>> =
>resolution,=20
added that "those who said it won't do any harm, we will <BR>>> =
>have=20
to<BR>>> >wait and see."<BR>>><BR>>> >Bush =
said the=20
resolution would do "great harm" to ties with Turkey, a<BR>>>=20
>Muslim-majority member of NATO whose territory is a crucial =
transit=20
<BR>>> >point<BR>>> >for US supplies bound for Iraq =
and=20
Afghanistan.<BR>>><BR>>> >According to the Armenians, =
1.5=20
million of their kinsmen were killed <BR>>> >from<BR>>> =
>1915 to 1923 under an Ottoman Empire campaign of de****tation and =
murder=20
<BR>>> >that<BR>>> >later encouraged Nazi leader =
Adolf=20
Hitler's Holocaust against the Jews.<BR>>><BR>>> =
>Rejecting the=20
genocide label, Turkey argues that 250,000 to 500,000<BR>>>=20
>Armenians and at least as many Turks died in civil strife when=20
Armenians<BR>>> >took up arms for independence in eastern =
Anatolia=20
during the war.<BR>>><BR>>> >Secretary of State =
Condoleezza=20
Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates <BR>>> =
>also<BR>>>=20
>denounced the measure before the hearing, after veiled threats =
from=20
<BR>>> >Ankara<BR>>> >that US access to a sprawling =
air base=20
in southern Turkey could be <BR>>> =
>denied.<BR>>><BR>>>=20
>But despite the warnings, the resolution's backers warned the =
issue=20
<BR>>> >could<BR>>> >not be ignored as they drew =
parallels=20
to the Holocaust and the <BR>>> >present-day<BR>>>=20
>bloodshed in the Sudanese region of =
Darfur.<BR>>><BR>>>=20
>"We've been told the timing is bad," Democratic House member Gary=20
<BR>>> >Ackerman<BR>>> >said in an emotional hearing =
that=20
lasted nearly four hours. "But the <BR>>> >timing<BR>>> =
>was=20
bad for the Armenian people in 1915."<BR>>><BR>>> =
>Republican=20
Representative Christopher Smith said the resolution was not =
<BR>>>=20
>a<BR>>> >slight on modern Turkey, adding: "Friends don't =
let=20
friends commit <BR>>> >crimes<BR>>> >against=20
humanity."<BR>>><BR>>> >Republican lawmaker Dan Burton, =
however, said passage of the genocide<BR>>> >resolution could =
endanger US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.<BR>>><BR>>> =
>"We're=20
in the middle of two wars. We have troops out there who are at =
<BR>>>=20
>risk.<BR>>> >And we're talking about kicking an ally in =
the=20
teeth. It is crazy."<BR>>><BR>>> >Gates said that about =
70=20
percent of all Iraq-bound US air cargo, 95 <BR>>>=20
>percent<BR>>> >of tough new mine-resistant vehicles and =
one-third=20
of the military's <BR>>> >fuel<BR>>> >transit =
through=20
Turkey.<BR>>><BR>>> >US commanders "believe, clearly, =
that=20
access to airfields and to the <BR>>> >roads<BR>>> =
>and so=20
on in Turkey would be very much put at risk if this resolution =
<BR>>>=20
>p*****<BR>>> >and the Turks react as strongly as we =
believe they=20
will," he said.<BR>>><BR>>> >FACTBOX: Background to =
Turkish=20
Armenian massacres dispute<BR>>> >Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:53pm=20
EDT<BR>>><BR>>> >(Reuters) - The U.S. House of =
Representatives=20
Foreign Affairs Committee<BR>>> >passed a symbolic resolution =
on=20
Wednesday calling the 1915 massacre of<BR>>> >Armenians =
genocide,=20
despite White House warnings it would damage<BR>>> =
>U.S.-Turkish=20
ties.<BR>>><BR>>> >Here are some key facts about the=20
issue:<BR>>><BR>>> >* THE =
BACKGROUND:<BR>>><BR>>>=20
>-- In the late 19th century the Ottoman Empire's Armenian=20
minority,<BR>>> >numbering an estimated 2 million, was =
encouraged by=20
exiled groups in the<BR>>> >United States, Geneva and in the =
Georgian=20
capital, Tbilisi, to assert <BR>>> >their<BR>>>=20
>nationalism.<BR>>><BR>>> >-- Repression by Ottoman=20
irregulars, mainly Kurds, led to the massacre <BR>>> =
>of<BR>>>=20
>some 30,000 Armenians in eastern Anatolia in 1894-1896. Several=20
thousand<BR>>> >more were killed in Constantinople in August =
1896=20
after Armenian <BR>>> >extremists<BR>>> >seized the =
Ottoman=20
Bank to draw attention to their cause.<BR>>><BR>>> >-- =
Their=20
massacres were halted after the Great Powers threatened to<BR>>> =
>intervene.<BR>>><BR>>> >* WHAT HAPPENED IN=20
1915:<BR>>><BR>>> >-- As the Ottomans fought Russian =
forces in=20
eastern Anatolia during <BR>>> >World<BR>>> >War =
One, many=20
Armenians formed partisan groups to assist the invading<BR>>>=20
>Russian armies.<BR>>><BR>>> >-- On April 24, 1915, =
Turkey=20
arrested and killed hundreds of Armenian<BR>>> =
>intelligentsia. In=20
May of that year Ottoman commanders began mass<BR>>> =
>de****tation of=20
Armenians from eastern Turkey thinking they might assist<BR>>>=20
>Russian invaders.<BR>>><BR>>> >-- Thousands were =
marched=20
from the Anatolian borders toward Syria and<BR>>> =
>Mesopotamia (now=20
Iraq) and Armenians say some 1.5 million died either in<BR>>>=20
>massacres or from starvation or deprivation as they were marched =
through=20
<BR>>> >the<BR>>> >desert.<BR>>><BR>>> =
>*=20
TURKEY'S VIEW:<BR>>><BR>>> >-- Turkey has always denied =
there=20
was a systematic campaign to <BR>>> >annihilate<BR>>>=20
>Armenians, saying that thousands of Turks and Armenians died in=20
<BR>>> >inter-ethnic<BR>>> >violence as the Ottoman =
Empire=20
started to collapse and fought a Russian<BR>>> >invasion of =
its=20
eastern provinces during World War One.<BR>>><BR>>> >-- =
The=20
modern Turkish republic was established in 1923 after the =
Ottoman<BR>>>=20
>empire collapsed.<BR>>><BR>>> Henry Morgenthau was an=20
eyewitness to the Armenian Genocide. You can<BR>>> read his =
chilling=20
account of this monumental crime <BR>>>=20
=
atwww.armenian-genocide.org/statement_morgenthau.html.<BR>>><BR>>=
;>=20
Morgenthau just happened to be U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman=20
Empire<BR>>> from 1913 to 1916.<BR>>><BR>>> The =
United=20
Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the<BR>>> =
Crime=20
of Genocide describes genocide as "acts committed with intent =
to<BR>>>=20
destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial =
or<BR>>>=20
religious group."<BR>>><BR>>> Between 1915 and 1923 the =
Ottoman=20
government systematically murdered<BR>>> 1.5 MILLION Armenians =
out of a=20
pre-1915 population of ~2.5 million.<BR>>> The remainder were =
de****ted=20
or fled for their lives. By 1923 the<BR>>> Armenian population =
in areas=20
controlled by Turkey had been expunged.<BR>>> Does massacring =
60% of an=20
ethnic/religious group and driving the<BR>>> remainder into =
exile=20
possibly meet the definition of "genocide"? Or is<BR>>> it not =
really=20
"genocide", since 40% of them somehow managed to escape<BR>>> =
with their=20
lives? Truth always comes at a price, but the cost of<BR>>> =
falsehood=20
and deceit is even higher. And as long as the Turkish<BR>>> =
government=20
continues to"lie and deny" the reality of the Armenian<BR>>> =
genocide it=20
cannot be accepted and respected as a mature and<BR>>> =
responsible=20
member of the community of nations. And if we let our<BR>>> =
country act=20
as an "enabler" in this dance of deceit and denial then we<BR>>> =
surrender any moral authority to condemn the crime of =
genocide<BR>>>=20
elsewhere in the world.<BR>>> ----<BR>>> =
Diogenes (<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:cdho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
">cdho...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>)<BR>>><=
BR>>> =20
The wars are long, the peace is=20
frail<BR>>> The madmen come =
again .=20
. . .<BR>><BR>> It makes no difference whether the Ottoman =
Empire exists=20
or not, the<BR>> people do, they were Turks and they are Turks now, =
and an=20
arrogant<BR>> government is forbidding recalcitrance which is in =
itself=20
shameful.<BR>> No one is blaming the current crop of Turks for what =
happened, but<BR>> just acknowledgment of the crime by a =
predecessor=20
government.<BR>> Similarly the 3rd Reich doesn't exist, but Germans =
still=20
hold a<BR>> respectful view towards the Holocaust.<BR><BR>The =
problem with=20
your statements above reflex the lay man who is civilized <BR>and =
mature=20
enough to accept their own fault and applogise for it. =
<BR>Unfortunately we=20
are talking turkeys in here and neither they have the brain <BR>or =
honour to=20
recognise their wrong doings. This is exactly why turkey is <BR>still=20
recognised as thirth world country who's democracy, human rights, =
<BR>economy=20
etc, lags years of any given EU states.<BR><BR>I want to specify the =
root=20
cause of the problem turkeys denial of all their <BR>genocides =
which=20
they have brutally commited (Greeks, Pontians, Kurds, <BR>Armenians, =
Arabs,=20
Assyrians, Keldanis, Surriyanis, etc,.). Whether you <BR>beileve it or =
not but=20
only 9% of the population in tukey have nothing to do <BR>with central =
asian=20
people (turks). 91% of the people in turkey either <BR>Greeks, =
Armenians,=20
Kurds, Pontians, Arabs, Assyrians, Albenians, Serbians <BR>etc,. Every =
single=20
ethnicities in turkey have to deny of their own roots and <BR>call =
themselves=20
"turks, proud turks". These people don't even understand <BR>each =
other=20
because of the language barrier. I mentioned this in my another =
<BR>post but=20
shortly turkish language with its weak structure made everyone in =
<BR>turkey=20
stupid and ignorant. What do you expect if you use the centarl asian=20
<BR>gramer with Arabic, Greek, Kurdish, Armenian, Assyrian etc,. =
words. This=20
is <BR>exactly as same as a foreign national speaking english by using =
their=20
own <BR>grammer.<BR><BR>For you or any civilized person who listens =
and read=20
about the Armenian <BR>genocide would instantly condemns the killings =
and=20
would have no doubt this <BR>being a genocide. But when it comes to =
the turk,=20
this is impossible, the <BR>language they use would make it impossible =
for=20
them to grasp even simple <BR>facts. Any time you try to translate =
anyting to=20
turkish language words will <BR>lose their meanin.<BR><BR>>=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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