"Fingal" <blyayankeetupye@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:tqquj0hnsp19v4117uh32u11pnduua5f3o@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:09:06 GMT, "Unknown Usenet Poster"
> <yryryryr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"DeMaisonneuve" <lucr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:RfK%c.4554$RP5.4188@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>> "Unknown Usenet Poster" <yryryryr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>> news:FfI%c.5971$bE1.1830159@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>> "Ty" <tbeardSPAM@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:10juin98sj3asd5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> > "Unknown Usenet Poster" <yryryryr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> > news:k4H%c.5305
>>>> >> "Ty" <tbeardSPAM@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> >
>>>> >> > Britain didn't "give it away". The League of Nations mandated
that
>>>> > Britain
>>>> >> > manage it and create a Jewish homeland. They disobeyed the
mandate
>>> and
>>>> >> > divided it between Arabs (who got most of the land) and Jews. As
>>>> >> > the
>>>> > legal
>>>> >> > predecessor to the United Nations, the League of Nations had as
>>>> >> > much
>>>> > right
>>>> >> > as anyone to determine the status of the land. I suppose Britain
>>> should
>>>> > be
>>>> >> > complimented for letting the League of Nations determine the
fate
>>>> >> > of
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > area. Britain could have simply asserted that it was British
>>> territory
>>>> > by
>>>> >> > right of conquest.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I've always found it amusing that pro-Palestinian folks wail
about
>>>> >> > Israel's
>>>> >> > pur****ted violation of UN resolutions, yet never mention
Britain's
>>>> >> > violation
>>>> >> > of the League of Nations mandates. Why is that?
>>>> >
>>>> > Non-answer noted.
>>>> >
>>>> >> > I note that you failed to dispute any of the historical facts
that
>>>> >> > I
>>>> >> > related. In particular, you failed to comment on the observation
>>>> >> > that
>>>> > the
>>>> >> > notion of a "Palestinian state" is a recent creation of cynical
>>>> >> > Arabs
>>>> >> > after
>>>> >> > their humiliating defeat in 1967 (to be distinguished from their
>>>> >> > humiliating
>>>> >> > defeats in 1948, 1956, 1973, 1982, 1991 and 2003...). I wonder
>>>> >> > why?
>>>> >
>>>> >> Maybe it had something to do with not reading your post? After
your
>>> first
>>>> >> phoney fact about Jews in Palestine, you lost all credibility and
I
>>> lost
>>>> >> interest.
>>>> >
>>>> > Non-answer noted.
>>>> >
>>>> > Hmmn. When confronted with inconvenient facts, you put your hands
on
>>> your
>>>> > ears and say "lalalala I'm not listening".
>>>> >
>>>> > Is that really the best you can do?
>>>> >
>>>> >> > And why do you not direct any of your self-righteous outrage at
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > Arab
>>>> >> > nations who continue to exploit the Palestinians as cheap labor
>>>> >> > and
>>>> >> > keep
>>>> >> > many of them locked up in concentration camps? Indeed, why are
you
>>> not
>>>> >> > criticizing the motley assortment of Arab strongmen, crackpot
>>>> >> > mullahs
>>>> > and
>>>> >> > murderous despots who have made the Arab world into a cesspool
of
>>> human
>>>> >> > misery?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It was John F. Kennedy who convinced the Saudis to discontinue
human
>>>> >> slavery. It was the US that deposed Saddam. It was the US that
>>>> >> helped
>>> put
>>>> > an
>>>> >> end to the Taliban in Afghanistan. It was the US that freed Kuwait
>>>> >> from
>>>> >> Saddam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It is quite clear that moderate Arab leaders provide better lives
>>>> >> for
>>>> > their
>>>> >> people than the dictators...Syria versus Jordan.
>>>> >
>>>> > Heh -- "moderate Arab leaders" seems like a contradiction in terms.
>>>> > Like
>>>> > "dry water" or "militarily competent Arabs".
>>>> >
>>>> >> I've criticized the people you've mentioned long before you
stumbled
>>> into
>>>> >> this NG.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't recall seeing them. A google search turned up nothing. Can
>>>> > you
>>>> > provide a link?
>>>> >
>>>> > Oh, and non-answer noted.
>>>> >
>>>> >> > <Non-answers predicted>
>>>> >
>>>> > Prediction comes true, of course.
>>>> >
>>>> > It is always fun to demonstrate the utter hypocrisy of folks like
>>>> > you.
>>> You
>>>> > wail piteously about the poor Palestinians, but seem strangely
>>>> > reluctant
>>>> > to
>>>> > criticize their Arab "brothers" who cynically use them for
political
>>>> > purposes, keep most of them locked up in concentration camps, and
>>>> > encourage
>>>> > lunatic militants in their midst.
>>>> >
>>>> > This reluctance implies that you really couldn't care less for the
>>>> > Palestinians. You seem remarkably unconcerned that the Palestinians
>>>> > are
>>>> > being brutalized and abused by their Arab brothers. I wonder why?
>>>> >
>>>> > <Non-answers predicted>
>>>> >
>>>> > --Ty
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Standard Israeli answers...it's always somebody else's fault...and so
>>>> the
>>>> conflict continues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This time I totally agree with you. All Ty says is presenting the Jews
>>> are
>>> poor innocent victims of this bad bad world as usual. He fails to
point
>>> out
>>> that society of nations was a failure and led to WW2. Besides, just
>>> because
>>> an organisation wants to provide a land for some people doesn't make
it
>>> something ethically acceptable. Imagine for a second that UN would
>>> declare
>>> the territory of Israel, Kurd's land. Than thousands of Kurds move
>>> there,
>>> take control of political institutions, consider Jews like
second-class
>>> living beings alongside with pigs and worms (unfit for consumption
>>> "Chabad
>>> Lubavith"). Would you move away and leave the place to these people,
TY?
>>> Muslims are a bunch of terrorists and imbeciles, but Jews are first
when
>>> talking about imbecility.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ty's biggest failure is his inability to see the conflict from the
>>Arab/Palestinian point of view. He only sees...Israel is right,
everybody
>>else is wrong. Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, the conflict
>>can
>>not be solved until both sides begin to understand the other's point of
>>view.
>>
>>You know, if the League of Nations, or Brits, or anybody came along and
>>gave
>>Ty's house away, he might have a totally diffrent point of view. In the
>>end
>>it wouldn't really matter to Ty exactly who gave his house away. All he
>>would care about is that he no longer has a home and somebody else gave
it
>>away.
>>
>>This is the same for Chechnya. Russians can not fathom what they have
done
>>to Chechans. They only see Chechans as the criminals. They do not even
>>begin
>>to consider the criminal acts they have committed.
>>
>>This is why there will be no solution to either the Palestinian or
Chechan
>>conflicts anytime soon. Russians and Israelis will continue to die and
>>they
>>will continue to blame it all on "terrorists" while ignoring their own
>>terrorism.
>>
>>Those who live by the sword will die by the sword...of course let's not
be
>>so naive to think that Jews read their own Bible. Moslems do not read
the
>>Koran either.
>>
> You seem to be putting some thought into these posts, but do you also
> allow that those who attacked the U.S.A. might have what they
> perceived as "justified"grivances? Or do you think that the attitude
> towarrds the U.S.A. is sui generis?
Of course the terrorists who committed the WTC bombings felt justified. It
is fairly obvious that the US is playing favorites, Israelis over Arabs.
It
was the one-sided US policy that caused the WTC bombings*. The problem
continues with the US standing silent while Israel builds walls and
settlements on Palestinian lands. That is crap and the US should say so.
*Another reason was simply the fact that US troops were in Saudi
Arabia...not much of a reason really.
While I agree that Israelis should be able to live free from terrorism,
the
root of the problem is that Arabs justifiably feel their lands were
stolen.
Without economic hope, their only recourse is to lash out.
I do not agree with US policy. Yes, Arab lands were stolen but it must be
decided, how are the wrongs righted, where do we go from here? Is the only
course a course of more terrorism and reprisals?
As the WTC demonstrates, the inability of the world, not just the US, to
address the grievances, results in many thousands dead. As the only
arbitor
in the middle east with any credibility, it is up to the US to be the
honest
broker, not just the syncophant of the Israeli Jews. The EU, UN or anybody
else has no credibility or willpower to solve the middle east crisis. Over
and over again, the EU and UN prove they can't solve anything on their
own.
Iraqi violence is simply the Arab world voicing its opinion on the USA's
unfairness in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. This is why Iraq is so
critical. The US must prove it can be fair and even helpful in the middle
east. Of course, adopting a fair policy over the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict would go even further to prove US good intentions.
I do not believe that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can be resolved so
long as Sharon and Arafat are still both alive. The best thing that could
happen is for both of them to be assasinated.
The only solution is to create a secular state that encomp***** both
Palestine and Israel. Palestinians and Israelis would enjoy full
rights...the right to vote, own land, etc. Israel would have to compensate
the Palestinians whose lands were stolen...and yes, they would have to
give
back lands to those who can prove their claims. Israel would have to
forget
their stupid, idiotoc idea about a religious state and Palestinains would
have to forget about Palestine.
The bottom line is that there is only so much land and a lot of people.
Neither side is going to simply go away. If they can not figure out how to
live together, there can only be continued conflict and all the murder and
destruction that goes along with that.
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