mtodorov_69@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> vkarlamov@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >
> > True. It is hate, power and profit that have resulted in the greatest
> > disasters of the 20th century, be it Turkish genocide agianst
> > Armenians; American nuclear Holocaust against Japanese; German and
> > Croat Holocaust against Jews, Serbs and Gypsies in 1940s; Croat
> > genocide against Serbs in 1990s; KLA/NATO genocide against Serbs,
> > Gypsies. Macedonians and Jew in 1999-2000s; American rape of Iraq in
> > 2003-present; etc. Curiously, the perpetrators all seem to be NATO
> > countires.
>
> You seem to be forgetting Serbian enterprise that killed/murdered 1 in
> 10
> Bosnians in Bosnia. That is quite impartial, isn't it?
>
First of all, saying that Serbs killed "1 in 10 Bosnians in Bosnia" is
a lie. Just as your earlie lie about 1 in 5 Chechens killed by Russians
in the last war.
Second, we are not talking about Serbs, are we? Serbs and Bosnians are
quite scared and hateful peoples. Not as hateful as Croats and
Albanians, but still a very sad bunch of folks.
Let's leave Serbs and Bosnians to be. You are a Croat, I am a
Russian-American. You posted accusations against Rusisans for their
mistreatment of Chechens. I am amazed that a representative of the most
genocidal and hateful nation on Earth would have the gall to accuse
others. You know the expression that people, who live in galss houses,
shouldn't throw stones, haven't you?
>
> Truly, to reach any solution, we must get over "mine truth, your truth"
> syndrome and see what really happened. Croats are not innocent
> infants, but you make Serbs like Arkan and Milosevic seem like a
> victim of genocide?
>
Arkan and Milosevic weren't victims. They didn't even live in Krajina.
It was something like 400 000 innocent Croatians of Serb ethnicity,
living in Krajina in Croatia, who were your victims.
>
> And they only wanted to erradicate Islamic threat
> from the soil of Europe. What an ignorant man I am ...
>
Well, I guess Croats and Arkan agree in their hatred for Bosnian
Muslims. You do know that Croats fought against Bosnian Muslims as
well?
But what does this have to do with Russia?
>
> > > Though Chechnyans are Muslims, I will quote Christian Bible in this
> > > moment:
> > >
> > > "Whoever shuts his ears from the cry of the oppressed,
> > > he will cry too and no one will listen."
>
The Bible also said "Only he, who is himself without a sin, may cast a
first stone".
>
> > > Great truth that will make us wonder someday why this evil or that
> > > evil is happening to us. But the answer is simple: we looked the
other
> > > way when it was happening to our neighbor.
> > >
> > > Mirsad Todorovac
> > > Zagreb, Croatia
> > > Apr/11/2006
> > >
> >
> > You are from Croatia? Great! Then you must be an expert on genocides.
> > Has your grandpa told you what was his personal favorite way to
> > exterminate Jews, Gypsies and Serbs in Nazi Croatia?
> >
> > Another question. After the genocides of 1940s and 1990s, there are
> > virtually no Jews left alive in Croatia. Are all the Serbs gone as
well
> > or do you guys need another round of genocides before you can declare
> > Croatia truly "serb-frei" (serb-free)?
> >
> > Also, I hear some top Croat leaders are finally standing trial at the
> > Hague Tribunal for the Crimes Against Humanity for their role in the
> > horrible Croat anti-Serb genocide in Krajina in mid-90s. What are
their
> > names and their alleged roles in this genocide? Any chance that the
> > rest of Croat leaders will join them in the Hague soon?
>
> About my grandpa: he was killed about 1943. On the wrong side.
> I like to think he only wanted to defend his village from Serbian
> Chetniks and then joined the wrong opposite side: Croatian
> Ustashe.
>
You mean, he was part of the Croat Nazi regime? Did he exterminate only
Serbs, or was he one of those who exterminated Jews and Gypsies as
well? I don't want to pick on your grandpa. I just want to point out
to you the crimes of your own nation.
>
> That was a troubled time and it wasn't hard to make
> wrong choice.
>
Aha. And the current times in Chechnya aren't troubled times?
>
> But I am not happy about any crime committed against Serbs. It
> did not make them any better, and it did not make us any better
> for sure.
>
Good for you.
>
> I was raised in Tito's (not Milosevic's) Yugoslavia, and I was taught
> unaligned movement policy, the im****tance of non-nuclear, not-rich
> third world, which under Tito has risen into formidable force.
>
Ddidn't Tito also teach you to love each other and live in one united
Yugoslavia? Why did you guys have to betray Tito's teachings and start
separatism, re-balkanizing the Balkans? You didn't like it that your
language was called "Serbo-Croatian" and not "Croatio-Serbian"? Why
couldn't Catholic Yugoslavs live in peace and friend****p with Greek
Orthodoxes the way do Ukrainians?
>
> I think I should maintain or restore unaligned policy, because
> unalignment is in fact impartiality. Jesus is impartial and God
> is impartial, for one.
>
Unaligned? Croatia is hardly neutral, isn't it?
>
> This means that I should be able to see both Russian story and
> Chechen story and see the truth in between.
>
Just leave Russia and Chechnya alone. Chechnya is becoming more
peaceful. The problem will hopefully disappear the way the problem in
Northern Ireland did.
>
> Chechens killed Russians, that's very bad.
>
> Russians killed 1 in 5 Chechens,
>
That's a lie. And even if Russians did kill 1 in 5 Chechens in
Chechnya, there are still 4 in 5 Chechens living there right now. But 5
in 5 Serbs are gone from Krajina.
Why do you insist on reha****ng old Russian crimes but ask me to forget
about old Croat crimes?
>
> that's something even the
> Bosnians did not face. And we all mourned for Srebrenica. I believe
> Chechens have the right to decide to be a nation of their own,
> according to the principle of self-determination of nations, and that
> they have the right for freedom.
>
When you Croats return all Serbs to Krajina and let them decide to make
Krajina a "nation of their own, according to the principle of
self-determination of nations, and that
they have the right for freedom" - then we'll talk.
But until Croatia has not given Krajina back to Serb refugess, you
better mind your own business and instead of trying to marshal sup****t
for far-away Chechnya, try to marshal sup****t for the Serbs who were
ethnically cleansed out of your own Croatia.
>
> They need a right leader or leaders instead of those who were
> assassined, of course.
>
> But this is all probably futile, since I am not sure they can read
> Internet and write to their own newsgroup.
>
I assure you they can. They even have their own web sites. I know that
you Croats think that Chechens are ignorant, backward and retarded.
They aren't. I assure you that even without your trivial advice,
Chechen rebel leaders know how to organize their fight. Chechen leaders
make up a huge part of the whole Al Qaeda leader****p. The best Al Qaeda
generals are Chechens. The elite Al Qaeda guards are all Chechens. Al
Qaeda has organized (with the help of Georgians, Kurds and Americans)
highly sophisticated network for producing chemical weapons of mass
destruction (ricin) to poison and terorrize Russian civilians. You
Croats have nothing to teach Chechens and Al Qaeda as to how best
terrorize Russians.
>
> Russian politicians need a scape-goat to put all their sins on and
> cast it into wilderness to Azazel, and Chechens have readilly fallen
> into every trap that was on their way, leading to a totally destroyed
> ethnical corpus. The best in Chechens was killed and it will not
> grow back for decades.
>
At least they can eventually grow back, unlike the Krajina Serbs.
>
> If you want to say that world full of genocides will justify you
> for one, you could as well be wrong. Once upon a time, big
> policy interests will be obsoleted, and the history will judge you.
>
Only after it judges you, Croats, along with your buddies Americans,
Albanains, and Turks.
>
> My ancestors (on the grandpa's line) the Turks have done
> wrong to Armenians, and to many other nations. It is time
> to admit that wrong and say it was wrong. We committed
> genocide. There have been better ways to deal with the
> problems.
>
Good for you. But you are not a Turkish citizen, so you have no power
to rectify the wrongs committed there. Why don't you delay worrying
about Chechens and first do something to return Serbs to Krajina? I
heard many of these people are still living in refugee camps and would
love ot return to Krajina and call it their home once again.
>
> I repeat, killing is the problem of this world, not the answer.
>
> Not much to add.
>
I agree. So do something about your own country's wrongs against
Krajina Serbs.
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