li [Bob LeChevalier] mi tulis la ...
> Padraic Brown <elemtilas@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >>That will depend on what you mean by it - the context is insufficient
> >>to identify the intended meaning.
> >
> >I take it you don't listen to AM radio. The context is the top of the
> >hour moment when the radio station jingle announces "WXYZ, 1551AM,
> >with your news, s****ts and weather at the top of the hour!"
>
> The statement is multiply ambiguous and false to boot (it's marketing,
> so we should expect this). There will in fact be no s****ts at the top
> of the hour. For one thing, hours are not physical objects and have
> no "tops". If one uses the metaphorical interpretation, then the
> entire newscast should take place in the instant that constitutes the
> "top of the hour". In fact, it will likely be the main headline that
> starts at the "top of the hour" and metonomic s****ts will occur some
> time into the hour which is no longer the top. Metonomic because in
> fact AM radio can provide you no s****ts. To have s****ts you have to
> join the competition yourself. What they are providing you at the
> non-top-of-the-hour isn't s****ts but "re****ts of news about some
> s****ts that we think you are interested in".
Okay, the english example is idiomatic with "'top' of the hour".
But the point still is how would something like that be stated
in Lojban. How would Lojban word that announcement? I supposed
in English to be totally logical would be "this is radio
broadcaster named WXYZ, 1151AM, re****ting on topics: news,
weather, s****ts starting at the beginning of the hour."
> And what precisely does WXYZ include under "s****ts" when they finally
> get around to it? Would they re****t on a chess match? If they re****t
> on Barry Bonds' alleged use of steroids, are they re****ting on
> "s****ts". I didn't know taking drugs was a s****t, much less
> allegations of taking drugs.
Baseball is a s****t (to most) and Barry Bonds is one of the most
well-known athletes in the game. Any alleged drug use that may
have affected his performance is certainly still topical within
the context of "s****ts."
> For that matter, s****ts and weather are kinds of news, so what is
> being promised is "news, a particular kind of news, and a different
> particular kind of news"
In a broadcasts like this, yes s****ts and weather are "news".
But they could also be spoken about from a historical
perspective, which means they wouldn't be news, but a part of
"history."
> Should Lojban emulate this incredible sloppiness of language merely to
> translate a marketing slogan?
Actually this isn't what I'd consider a marketing slogan.
Broadcasters are legally required to announce their station
identification periodically, and its normal for them to follow
up with some type of statement letting listeners know what type
of programming they provide. In this case news, as opposed to
other stations which may have music, talk, etc.
> >>If you are sufficiently specific in your meaning, Lojban will have a
> >>number of possible words that would cover whatever concept. Using
> >>metaphor translation, we might have compete-play or play-competition
> >>or skill-competition, muscle play or muscle-rule-play
> >
> >How would an all-Lojban radio station announce its "news, s****ts and
> >weather" at the top of the hour?
>
> It wouldn't, since it could not provide such things.
Okay, let's get real here. How would a Lojban station announce
that those are the topics they re****t about?
> If it were attempting to be as logical as the language, it would say
> the lojban equivalent of something like "im****tant news about events,
> competitions, and weather will be re****ted at the beginning of the
> coming hour. Of course the "competitions" is then redundant, since
> any competition is an event.
>
> >>>I'm not at all sure that cultural neutrality is an attainable goal,
> >>>even approximately. Are there natlangs that have no word for
's****ts'
> >>>in the English sense?
> >>
> >>I suspect that most of them do not.
> >
> >Possibly not. S****ts as we know them in the modern world are
> >definitely a luxury and a lesiuretime activity. This is not to say
> >that other cultures don't have rigorous, team oriented, s****tlike
> >activities. They might be religious in nature or cultural contests.
I'm not sure I'd call them a luxury. Soccer is popular all over
the world, except here in the U.S. but it is starting to gain
some interest here too.
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