Re: Samuelson on OIl Drilling

"The Trucker" <mikcob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:pan.2008.05.02.01.15.15.202034@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Fri, 02 May 2008 08:16:14 +0800, John Galt wrote:
>
>>
>> "The Trucker" <mikcob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2008.05.01.16.48.51.924372@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 23:07:11 +0800, John Galt wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <forbisgaryg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>
news:25f3d48f-ee89-441c-a8cd-9ad47166aaf5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On May 1, 6:49 am, "John Galt" <whoisjohng...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>> <forbisga...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
news:ef83522d-dc71-44aa-b24e-f68aa8e7acce@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> On Apr 30, 9:31 am, "John Galt" <whoisjohng...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > You know, I'm writing this from Bangalore, where industrialists
are
>>>>> > still
>>>>> > respected for their ability to lift standards of living. I'm
trying 
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > figure out how Americans became so jaded that they forgot that 
>>>>> > little
>>>>> > fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many of us did the fruit fly in a jar experiment.
>>>>> Now I know many poopoo Malthus.
>>>>> How does one know if one is in a jar or not?
>>>>> We can see the depletion of the resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>> I'm sure you have a point there, Gary, but I'm at a loss to figure
out
>>>>> what
>>>>> it is.
>>>>
>>>> The "ability to lift standards of living" isn't to be respected if
>>>> it isn't sustainable.
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>> OK.....but it might not be the industrialists fault. They don't, for
>>>> example, have access to the Treasury printing presses.
>>>
>>> It depends on whether they "own" the government, doesn't it?
>>
>> Well, suffice to say that business has a legitimate seat at the 
>> governmental
>> table. If their influence becomes undue, then you have a problem.
>
> In my own view of our "republican form of government", business does not
> have near as large a legitimate seat and the governmental table as it
> currently does. Read the quote from Jefferson that I use as my signature
> very carefully. You imply that businesses are better equipped to advise
> the representatives of the people as to policy than are the common
people.

That's not what I was implying. My point is that certain groups of 
individuals with like interests become of such import to the political 
reality that they have a legitimate right to be heard in a organized and 
cogent fashion. Corporations fit. So do lobbyists, whether corporate or 
special interest. So do unions. So does the media.

> That can only be true to the extent that education and transparency is
> lacking.  And we simply do not need legislation that is thrown together
> that quickly.  We have far too much legislation in our current system
and
> it is very poor legislation indeed.

Without objection.
>
>>>
>>>>  Industrialists come in and lift the standard
>>>> of living for a short time while draining non-replaceable resources
>>>> then they leave to go to greener pastures, leaving the people with
>>>> a life style they cannot maintain and without the resources to return
>>>> to their prior life.
>>>>
>>>> *****
>>>> What "greener pastures" do they go to? Please have specific examples,
>>>> because it sounds like you're blowing smoke.
>>>>
>>>> JG
>>>
>>> Well, the "greener pastures" are diminishing.  That was the point
about
>>> the jar.  The "greener pastures" thus far have been the poor and
>>> impoverished in the undeveloped places, and the governments of those
>>> places that will help the looters loot the natural resources and the
>>> people.
>>
>> Sorry, I don't buy off on the idea that business is exploitation. A few

>> bad
>> apples do not mean the tree needs to come down.
>
> If those few bad apples have too much power then that is a very big
> problem.

IF so, (underline if) true.

> We have a government in which the common people are ill informed
> and in which the big people use the ill informed nature of the common
> people as an excuse to take more and more power from them.

Yes.

JG

>
> -- 
> "I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
> of society but the people themselves; and
> if we think them not enlightened enough to
> exercise their control with a wholesome
> discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
> them, but to inform their discretion by
> education." - Thomas Jefferson
> http://GreaterVoice.org/extend
>