Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, Canada,
Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal stained
moslems. wrote:
> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, Canada,
> Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal stained
> moslems. wrote:
>> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, China, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, Canada,
>> Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of ****skin
>> moslems. wrote:
>>> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, Canada,
>>> Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal stained
>>> moslems. wrote:
>>>> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong,
>>>> Canada, Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal
>>>> stained moslems. wrote:
>>>>> I wipe my ASS on Mohammed's FACE! wrote:
>>>>>> Qur'an Incoherence and Contradiction
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is Satan an Angel or a Jinn?
>>>>>> Analyzing the Quran's Confusing Statements
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam Shamoun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Quran, in many citations, ****trays Satan or Iblis as an angel:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> Adam." And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and
>>>>>> was proud
>>>>>> and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah). S. 2:34
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to
>>>>>> create a
>>>>>> man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So,
>>>>>> when I have
>>>>>> fa****oned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul
>>>>>> which I
>>>>>> created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto
>>>>>> him." So,
>>>>>> the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together. Except
Iblis
>>>>>> (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators. S. 15:28-31
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves
>>>>>> to Adam."
>>>>>> They prostrated (all) except Iblis (Satan), who refused. S. 20:116
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly, I am going
>>>>>> to create
>>>>>> man from clay". So when I have fa****oned him and breathed into him
>>>>>> (his)
>>>>>> soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the
>>>>>> angels
>>>>>> prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was
>>>>>> proud and
>>>>>> was one of the disbelievers. S. 38:71-74
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The natural reading of the above texts is to see Satan as an angel
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> refused to obey Allah's order to wor****p Adam. The following
>>>>>> passage brings
>>>>>> out this point even more clearly:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you
>>>>>> shape (the
>>>>>> noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate
>>>>>> to Adam",
>>>>>> and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of
>>>>>> those who
>>>>>> prostrate. (Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you
>>>>>> did not
>>>>>> prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than
>>>>>> him (Adam),
>>>>>> You created me from fire, and him You created from clay." S.
7:11-12
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allah asks Iblis why he didn't obey his instruction to the angels
to
>>>>>> prostrate to Adam, which presupposes that he was one of the
>>>>>> angels. The text
>>>>>> does not say that Allah commanded some other group along with the
>>>>>> angels to
>>>>>> wor****p Adam, and therefore makes no sense for Allah to hold Iblis
>>>>>> accountable for not obeying a command that was given to them if he
>>>>>> wasn't an
>>>>>> angel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet the Quran introduces a discrepancy by identifying Iblis as a
>>>>>> jinn:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam."
>>>>>> So they
>>>>>> prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he
>>>>>> disobeyed the
>>>>>> Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his
>>>>>> offspring as
>>>>>> protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to
>>>>>> you? What an
>>>>>> evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and
>>>>>> wrong-doers, etc). S.
>>>>>> 18:50
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, this either means that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a.. Satan is an angel and therefore not a jinn.
>>>>>> b.. Or he is a jinn and therefore not an angel, which makes
>>>>>> Allah unjust
>>>>>> for blaming him for not obeying a command given to the angels and
>>>>>> not to the
>>>>>> jinn.
>>>>>> c.. Or the jinn are angels which introduces another
>>>>>> contradiction as we
>>>>>> will demonstrate shortly.
>>>>>> Aware of the foregoing dilemma Muslims have come up with some
>>>>>> convenient
>>>>>> and/or intriguing explanations. For instance, one Muslim translator
>>>>>> distorted the text of S. 18:50 in order to make it say that Iblis
>>>>>> became a
>>>>>> jinn, not that he was a jinn:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell
>>>>>> prostrate,
>>>>>> except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His
>>>>>> Lord. Will
>>>>>> you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even
>>>>>> though they
>>>>>> are your enemies? What a miserable substitute! Rashad Khalifa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Khalifa's rendering presupposes that Iblis was an angel before
>>>>>> becoming a
>>>>>> jinn, an understanding which, as we stated above, poses additional
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>> which we will see a little later. Khalifa's followers provide the
>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>> why he translated the text in this manner:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Arabic in verse 18:50 could be translated as he was a jinn
>>>>>> or it could
>>>>>> be translated as he became a jinn. The following translation of
>>>>>> the Arabic
>>>>>> verse 18:50 stating that Satan became a jinn, however, is the
correct
>>>>>> understanding for reasons stated below. It can be understood that
>>>>>> Satan
>>>>>> became disobedient and therefore no longer an angel through
>>>>>> looking at other
>>>>>> verses as well as this one rather than coming to a conclusion
>>>>>> using only
>>>>>> this verse. We should not take the scripture partially. First, God
>>>>>> spoke
>>>>>> specifically to the angels, not the angels and the jinns. Second,
>>>>>> God issued
>>>>>> the command to fall prostrate to the angels; and the angels fell
>>>>>> prostrate,
>>>>>> all of them, except Satan. Some Islamic "scholars" argue about the
>>>>>> use of
>>>>>> the Arabic word "illah" (except), but it is just a distraction
>>>>>> from the fact
>>>>>> that God is clearly speaking to and giving the command to angels.
>>>>>> Third,
>>>>>> There is no mistaking that Satan has fallen, God tells us Satan is
>>>>>> in his
>>>>>> act of rebellion, which is followed by his banishment. Lastly, the
>>>>>> Islamic
>>>>>> "scholars" claim that angels are made of light, but nowhere in the
>>>>>> Quran
>>>>>> does it say what angels are made of. Since there are no
>>>>>> inconsistencies or
>>>>>> contradictions in the Quran and it is perfect (16:103,18:2,
26:195),
>>>>>> complete (6:115, 41:3), and fully detailed (6:114, 7:52, 10:37),
>>>>>> we can
>>>>>> conclude that the confusion is caused by the contradicting Hadith.
>>>>>> (Source)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still others claim that jinn are actually a class of angels
>>>>>> created to guard
>>>>>> paradise. Renowned Sunni exegete and historian al-Tabari wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to al-Qasim b. al-Hasan- al-Husayn b. Dawud- Hajjaj-
>>>>>> Ibn Jurayj-
>>>>>> Ibn `Abbas: Iblis was one of the most noblest angels and belonged
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> most honored tribe among them. He was a keeper of Paradise. He had
>>>>>> authority
>>>>>> to rule over the lower heaven as well as earth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to al-Qasim- al-Husayn- Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj- Salih, the
>>>>>> mawla of
>>>>>> al-Taw'amah and Sharik b. Abir Namir, either one or both of them-
Ibn
>>>>>> `Abbas: There was an angelic tribe of jinn, and Iblis belonged to
>>>>>> it. He
>>>>>> governed all in between the heaven and the earth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to Musa b. Harun al-Hamdani- `Amr b. Hammad- Asbat-
>>>>>> al-Suddi-
>>>>>> Abu Malik and Abu Salih- Ibn `Abbas. Also (al-Suddi)- Murrah
>>>>>> al-Hamdani- Ibn
>>>>>> Mas'ud and some (other) companions of the Prophet: Iblis was ruler
>>>>>> over the
>>>>>> lower heaven. He belonged to a tribe of angels called jinn. They
>>>>>> were called
>>>>>> jinn because they were keepers of Paradise (al-jannah). In
>>>>>> addition to being
>>>>>> ruler, Iblis was a keeper (of Paradise).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to `Abdan al-Marwazi- al-Husayn b. al-Faraj- Dahhak b.
>>>>>> Muzahim,
>>>>>> commenting on God's word: "They prostrated themselves, except
>>>>>> Iblis. He was
>>>>>> one of the jinn": Ibn `Abbas used to say: Iblis was one of the
>>>>>> noblest
>>>>>> angels and belonged to their most honored tribe. He was a keeper of
>>>>>> Paradise, and his was the rule over the lower heaven as well as
>>>>>> the earth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Abu al-Azhar al-Mubarak b.
>>>>>> Mujahid-
>>>>>> Sharik b. `Abdallah b. Abi Namir- Salih, the mawla of al-Taw'amah-
>>>>>> Ibn
>>>>>> `Abbas: There is an angelic tribe called jinn. Iblis belonged to
>>>>>> them. He
>>>>>> used to rule all in between heaven and earth. Then he became
>>>>>> disobedient,
>>>>>> and God therefore transformed him into a stoned Satan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to al-Qasim- al-Husayn- Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj, commenting
>>>>>> on: "And
>>>>>> whoever among them says: I am a god besides Him": Whichever angel
>>>>>> says: "I
>>>>>> am a god besides Him" calls to wor****p of himself, and only Iblis
>>>>>> said that.
>>>>>> Thus, this verse was revealed with reference to Iblis. (The
>>>>>> History of
>>>>>> al-Tabari: General Introduction and From the Creation to the Flood,
>>>>>> translated by Franz Rosenthal [State University of New York Press
>>>>>> (SUNY),
>>>>>> Albany 1989], Volume 1, pp. 250-251; bold emphasis ours)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the events that took place during the rule of the enemy
>>>>>> of God
>>>>>> while he was (still) obedient to God is what was mentioned to us
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> authority of Ibn `Abbas in a re****t told us by Abu Kurayb- `Uthman
>>>>>> b. Sa'id-
>>>>>> Bishr b. `Umarah- Abu Rawq- al-Dahhak- Ibn `Abbas: Iblis belonged
>>>>>> to a
>>>>>> tribal group of angels called jinn. Among the angels it was they
>>>>>> who were
>>>>>> created from the fire of simoom. He continued. His name was
>>>>>> al-Harith. He
>>>>>> continued. He was one of the keepers of Paradise. He continued.
>>>>>> All the
>>>>>> angels except this tribal group were created from light. He
>>>>>> continued. The
>>>>>> jinn mentioned in the Qur'an were created "from a bright flame
>>>>>> (marij) of
>>>>>> fire"- (marij being) a tongue of fire blazing on its side(s and
>>>>>> top). He
>>>>>> continued. And He created man from clay. The first to dwell on
>>>>>> earth were
>>>>>> the jinn. They caused corruption on it and shed blood and killed
>>>>>> each other.
>>>>>> He continued. God sent Iblis to them with an army of angels. They
>>>>>> were that
>>>>>> tribal group called jinn. Iblis and those with him caused a
>>>>>> bloodbath among
>>>>>> them and eventually banished them to the islands in the oceans and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> mountainsides. His success went to his head, and he said: I have
done
>>>>>> something nobody has ever done before. He continued. God was aware
>>>>>> of how
>>>>>> Iblis felt, but the angels who were with him were not. (Ibid., pp.
>>>>>> 252-253;
>>>>>> bold emphasis ours)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ibn Humayd gave us about the same account again, re****ting from
>>>>>> Salamah-
>>>>>> Ibn Ishaq- Khallad b. `Ata'- Tawus or Abu al-Hajjaj Mujahid- Ibn
>>>>>> `Abbas, and
>>>>>> others. However, he said: (Iblis) was an angel named Azazil. He
>>>>>> was one of
>>>>>> the dwellers and cultivators on earth. The dwellers on earth from
>>>>>> among the
>>>>>> angel used to be called jinn." (Ibid., p. 254; bold emphasis ours)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This interpretation would imply that Iblis did not become a jinn
>>>>>> but already
>>>>>> was one, and being one meant that he was also an angelic being.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The late Muhammad Asad agreed with this view, that jinn are
>>>>>> angels, since he
>>>>>> stated in his footnote to S. 18:50:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 53 Denoting, in this instance, the angels (see Appendix III).
>>>>>> (Source)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then wrote in an appendix that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN ORDER to grasp the pur****t of the term jinn as used in the
>>>>>> Qur'an, we
>>>>>> must dissociate our minds from the meaning given to it in Arabian
>>>>>> folklore,
>>>>>> where it early came to denote all the manner of "demons" in the
>>>>>> most popular
>>>>>> sense of the word. This folkloristic image has somewhat obscured
the
>>>>>> original connotation of the term and its highly significant -
almost
>>>>>> self-explanatory - verbal derivation. The root-verb janna, "he [or
>>>>>> "it"]
>>>>>> concealed" or "covered with darkness": cf. 6 : 76, which speaks of
>>>>>> Abraham
>>>>>> "when the night overshadowed him with its darkness (janna
>>>>>> 'alayhi)". Since
>>>>>> this verb is also used in the intransitive sense ("he [or "it"]
>>>>>> was [or
>>>>>> "became"] concealed," resp. "covered with darkness"), all classical
>>>>>> philologists point out that al-jinn signifies "intense [or
>>>>>> "confusing"]
>>>>>> darkness" and, in a more general sense, "that which is concealed
>>>>>> from [man's]
>>>>>> senses", i.e., things, beings or forces which cannot normally be
>>>>>> perceived
>>>>>> by man but have, nevertheless, an objective reality, whether
>>>>>> concrete or
>>>>>> abstract, of their own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the usage of the Qur'an, which is certainly different from
>>>>>> the usage of
>>>>>> primitive folklore, the term jinn has several distinct meanings.
>>>>>> The most
>>>>>> commonly encountered is that of the spiritual forces or beings
which,
>>>>>> precisely because they have no cor****eal existence, are beyond the
>>>>>> perceptions of our cor****eal senses: a connotation which includes
>>>>>> "satans"
>>>>>> and "satanic forces" (shayatin - see note 16 on 15 : 17) as well
>>>>>> as "angels"
>>>>>> and "angelic forces", since all of them are "concealed from our
>>>>>> senses"
>>>>>> (Jawhari, Raghib). In order to make it quite evident that these
>>>>>> invisible
>>>>>> manifestations are not of a cor****eal nature, the Qur'an states
>>>>>> parabolically that the jinn were created out of "the fire of
>>>>>> scorching
>>>>>> winds" (nar as-samum, in 15 : 27) or out of "a confusing flame of
>>>>>> fire"
>>>>>> (marij min nar, in 55 :15) or simply "out of fire" (7 : 12 and 38
>>>>>> : 76, in
>>>>>> these last two instances referring to the Fallen Angel, Iblis).
>>>>>> Parallel
>>>>>> with this, we have authentic ahadith to the effect that the
>>>>>> Prophet spoke of
>>>>>> the angels as having been "created out of light" (khuliqat min
>>>>>> nur: Muslim,
>>>>>> on the authority of 'A'ishah) - light and fire being akin, and
>>>>>> likely to
>>>>>> manifest themselves within and through one another (cf. note 7 on
>>>>>> verse 8 of
>>>>>> surah 27). (The Message of the Quran translated and explained by
>>>>>> Muhammad
>>>>>> Asad [The Book Foundation, England 2003], Appendix III: On the
>>>>>> Term and
>>>>>> Concept of Jinn, p. 1135)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But this position contradicts specific Quranic statements that
>>>>>> expressly
>>>>>> deny that angels can ever disobey:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And to Allah prostate all that is in the heavens and all that is
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> earth, of the live moving creatures and the angels, and they are
>>>>>> not proud
>>>>>> [i.e. they wor****p their Lord (Allah) with humility]. They fear
>>>>>> their Lord
>>>>>> above them, and they do what they are commanded. S. 16:49-50
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To Him belongs whosoever is in the heavens and on earth. And
>>>>>> those who are
>>>>>> near Him (i.e. the angels) are not too proud to wor****p Him, nor
>>>>>> are they
>>>>>> weary (of His wor****p). They (i.e. the angels) glorify His Praises
>>>>>> night and
>>>>>> day, (and) they never slacken (to do so). S. 21:19-20
>>>>>>
>>>>>> O you who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a
>>>>>> Fire
>>>>>> (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, over which are (appointed)
>>>>>> angels stern
>>>>>> (and) severe, who disobey not, (from executing) the Commands they
>>>>>> receive
>>>>>> from Allah, but do that which they are commanded. S. 66:6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, if Iblis is an angel who disobeyed then the Quran is wrong
for
>>>>>> claiming that angels always obey their Lord! In fact, Iblis is not
>>>>>> the only
>>>>>> angel who sinned against God since there are many among the jinn
>>>>>> that have
>>>>>> done and continue to do so and who will end up in hell:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And on the Day when He will gather them (all) together (and
>>>>>> say): "O you
>>>>>> assembly of jinns! Many did you mislead of men," and their Auliya'
>>>>>> (friends
>>>>>> and helpers, etc.) amongst men will say: "Our Lord! We benefited
>>>>>> one from
>>>>>> the other, but now we have reached our appointed term which You
>>>>>> did appoint
>>>>>> for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling place, you will
>>>>>> dwell
>>>>>> therein forever, except as Allah may will. Certainly your Lord is
>>>>>> AllWise,
>>>>>> AllKnowing." And thus We do make the Zalimun (polytheists and
>>>>>> wrongdoers,
>>>>>> etc.) Auliya' (sup****ters and helpers) one to another (in
>>>>>> committing crimes
>>>>>> etc.), because of that which they used to earn. O you assembly of
>>>>>> jinns and
>>>>>> mankind! "Did not there come to you Messengers from amongst you,
>>>>>> reciting
>>>>>> unto you My Verses and warning you of the meeting of this Day of
>>>>>> yours?"
>>>>>> They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the
>>>>>> life of this
>>>>>> world that deceived them. And they will bear witness against
>>>>>> themselves that
>>>>>> they were disbelievers. S. 6:128-130
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And surely, We have created many of the jinns and mankind for
>>>>>> Hell. They
>>>>>> have hearts wherewith they understand not, they have eyes
>>>>>> wherewith they see
>>>>>> not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They
>>>>>> are like
>>>>>> cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones.
>>>>>> S. 7:179
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So on that Day no question will be asked of man or jinn as to
>>>>>> his sin,
>>>>>> (because they have already been known from their faces either
>>>>>> white or
>>>>>> black). S. 55:39
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But many, if not most, Muslims deny that jinn are angels on the
>>>>>> grounds that
>>>>>> they are created from different elements. For instance, the Quran
>>>>>> asserts
>>>>>> that jinn were created from fire:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the jinn did We create aforetime of essential fire. S. 15:27
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the jinn did He create of smokeless fire. S. 55:15
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whereas angels were created from light according to certain Islamic
>>>>>> narrations. Yet, as our quotes from al-Tabari and Muhammad Asad
>>>>>> showed, this
>>>>>> doesn't conclusively prove that angels and jinn are different
>>>>>> since it is
>>>>>> quite reasonable to assume that the jinn were a specific group of
>>>>>> angels
>>>>>> that were formed from fire as opposed to the other ones who were
>>>>>> created
>>>>>> from light. Besides, the Quran is silent on the origin of angels,
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> they were made from light or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, to be fair, there is also nothing in the Quran which
>>>>>> expressly says
>>>>>> that jinn are angels. Whatever the case, a Muslim is still left
with
>>>>>> problems in trying to reconcile what the Quran says, i.e. how can
>>>>>> Satan
>>>>>> disobey if he is an angel or if he is not an angel then why was he
>>>>>> blamed
>>>>>> for not obeying a command given only to angels?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another attempt of explaining away the discrepancy is to appeal to
>>>>>> the rules
>>>>>> of Arabic grammar, which is what this next Muslim tries to do:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The English translation of the first part of the verse 'We said
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis', gives us
the
>>>>>> impression that Iblis was an angel. The Qur'an was revealed in
>>>>>> Arabic. In
>>>>>> Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to
>>>>>> which, if the
>>>>>> majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for
>>>>>> example, I
>>>>>> address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and
>>>>>> one is a
>>>>>> girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it
>>>>>> includes the
>>>>>> girl as well. I need not mention her seperately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly in the Qur'an, when Allah addressed the angels, even
>>>>>> Iblis was
>>>>>> present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately.
>>>>>> Therefore
>>>>>> according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an
>>>>>> angel, but
>>>>>> we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis
>>>>>> was a
>>>>>> Jinn. No where does the Qur'an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore
>>>>>> there is no
>>>>>> contradiction in the Qur'an. (Dr. Zakir Naik, Most Common
>>>>>> Questions asked by
>>>>>> Non-Muslims who have some knowledge of Islam; source)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To show why this ad hoc explanation is rather forced and very
>>>>>> weak, let us
>>>>>> take his same analogy and change it a bit. If for example, I
>>>>>> address the
>>>>>> same class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is
>>>>>> a girl,
>>>>>> and it so happens that there are parents also present with their
>>>>>> children,
>>>>>> and I say in Arabic that all the boys should stand up and yet none
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> parents stand, I cannot legitimately hold them liable since I
wasn't
>>>>>> addressing them directly. Let us also assume that at this class,
>>>>>> both the
>>>>>> principal and the vice-principal were present and didn't stand up
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> having told the boys to rise from their seats. Could I
>>>>>> legitimately hold
>>>>>> them accountable for failing to comply with my orders? Of course
>>>>>> not, since
>>>>>> they do not fall under the category of boys, nor do they come
>>>>>> under the
>>>>>> category of classmates. If I wanted both the parents and school
>>>>>> officials to
>>>>>> stand up I would need to mention them specifically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is obvious that the girl in Naik's analogy falls under the same
>>>>>> general
>>>>>> category of classmates and children, so a reference to boys can
>>>>>> include her
>>>>>> since the term boys wouldn't be gender specific in this case. (But
>>>>>> even that
>>>>>> would have to be gleaned from the context in which the word is
>>>>>> being used
>>>>>> since you may have a class which is made up of entirely boys). The
>>>>>> mention
>>>>>> of boys in this context would be a general statement referring to
>>>>>> a group
>>>>>> consisting of young children and schoolmates. The term would
>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>> include all the persons which would fall under that category,
>>>>>> irrespective
>>>>>> of gender.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hence, the only way Naik's example could serve as a valid analogy
>>>>>> is if we
>>>>>> were to take for granted that Iblis belongs to the same category
>>>>>> of angels.
>>>>>> But arguing this way leaves us with the problem of Iblis
>>>>>> disobeying Allah
>>>>>> when the Quran says that angels are never disobedient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, there are situations where only part of the class is
>>>>>> supposed to stand
>>>>>> up. Just imagine there are 30 boys and ten girls in a class. The
>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>> says that all the boys should stand up. Does he mean all the
>>>>>> pupils then? Or
>>>>>> could it be that he meant really only the boys and not the girls?
>>>>>> E.g.
>>>>>> because the boys should then leave the room to attend auto
>>>>>> mechanic class to
>>>>>> learn how to repair cars while the girls remain in the room for
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> knitting, or something of that nature. Thus, it isn't the rule,
>>>>>> really, but
>>>>>> the context that determines the meaning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now had the Quran simply said that Allah commanded the heavenly
>>>>>> beings, or
>>>>>> the inhabitants of heaven to wor****p Adam then that would have been
a
>>>>>> different story. One could argue that the reference to heavenly
>>>>>> inhabitants
>>>>>> would most likely include Iblis, presuming of course that he
>>>>>> originally was
>>>>>> a heavenly creature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To help further drive this point home here is another
>>>>>> illustration: Suppose
>>>>>> in heaven there had been angels, men and animals present when
>>>>>> Allah chose to
>>>>>> single out one man, Adam, for special honor and blessing. Suppose
>>>>>> Allah had
>>>>>> commanded that all the angels should bow down before Adam, which
>>>>>> they do,
>>>>>> but none of the humans or animals do so. Could Allah blame them
>>>>>> for failing
>>>>>> to bow before Adam despite the fact that he never specifically
>>>>>> singled any
>>>>>> of these other groups out? The obvious answer is, of course not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it stands, Naik's argument is pretty weak and quite
>>>>>> unconvincing. Dr.
>>>>>> Naik is simply committing the fallacy of false analogy at this
point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The foregoing makes it abundantly clear that the Quran contains
major
>>>>>> discrepancies and contradictions which are not easily harmonized.
>>>>>> In light
>>>>>> of this, we can take the Quran's claim of being free of any errors
>>>>>> (S. 4:82)
>>>>>> and change it to say:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from
>>>>>> Allah,
>>>>>> they would surely have not found therein so many contradictions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All citations taken from the Hilali-Khan version of the Quran.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm amazed at your knowledge of dirty ****skin goat ****ing
>>>>> mohammadans.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary the mighty Yaako warrior.
>
>
HOW TO BECOME A ****SKIN MOSLEM - this is how: **** goats, **** your
mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the
time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities
at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you ****ed to
a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an
indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............
Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !!
Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!!
info@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or apache@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or
politicsIranian@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child
molesting goat ****ers and nikomaks
_
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
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Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!!
info@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or apache@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or
politicsIranian@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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