Re: DOLLAR COLLAPSE NOW IMMINENT

>
> > Damn, we think too much alike.
>
> Hey, three cheers for us. :-) =A0 !!!!
>
> Gates was also the first name that
>
> > came to mind when I thought about the title robber-baron and God knows
> > that I dislike that SOB about as much as any human on earth.
>
> Well, we could throw in some venom for Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon,
> Ghengis Khan, etc., etc., too.
>
> =A0On the
>
> > other hand, I can't totally agree that he was a robber-baron either.
> > Gates was an op****tunist that essentially saw what the public wanted
> > and gave it to them. =A0He is probably the worst example because his
> > product was not something that was a life and death product. =A0We
> > didn't have to buy his operating system or anything else from him, we
> > chose to.
>
> Fine, I use MS SW most of the time (spent a lot of time with Linux,
> some with BSD and OS/2 [=3Dbig IBM disaster, but MS was hired to do some
> and they deliberately sabotaged IBM, too]). But, MS did all kinds of
> really dirty tricks to everyone. I can name many. Most of the old
> timers know this.
>

Dirty tricks or recognition that if you gave them an inch they would
take a mile?  IBM gave MS an inch and they took a mile but then they
learn from the masters of the time which was IBM.  They out played IBM
at their own game.  Which is what usually happend with every monopoly
given enough time.  MS is on top for the moment but they are well
aware that the dogs are at their heals.

> And, I don't like monopolists and other "anti-competitive" business
> practices that are in business history. Give me honest competition and
> that's good capitalism. But the dirty tricks are out there and there
> are very many books about it.
>

I agree totally.

> > I go back in the business far enough to have been deeply involved with
> > the IBM Monopoly of the 60's and 70's. =A0I thought the same of IBM at
> > the time but looking back the monopoly by IBM was only partly IBM's
> > doing and much more a stupid follow the leader mentality that said if
> > you picked anything but IBM, it was your job on the line.
>
> I have the notion that when guys get too big for their britches, then
> they start confusing themselves with gods. Happened to Alexander the
> Great. Human psychology phenonmenon.
>
> =A0Microsoft
>
And eventually they will be brought down if by nothing else that the
weight of their own ego.

>
> > became a monopoly on the same mentality.
>
> > > Back some 10 years ago, Archer-Daniels-Midland was caught by the FTC
> > > in price fixing. Also, Ucars was also caught by the FTC in price
> > > fixing. Various guys in the Enron-Andersen fiascos were playing
robber=
-
> > > baron.
>
> > > I could list the Ivan Boesky's, Michael Milkins, and many others,
and
> > > give you many book titles if you want to read how we've had many
> > > robber-barons, going right back to Standard Oil times with
Rockefeller=

> > > and the others who did a lot of damage along, simultaneously, with
all=

> > > of their development of modern society.
>
> > I agree that all did some damage along the way but all also made
> > contributions along the way that actually were a benefit to our life
> > today.
>
> I fully agree. If you want a car, then there has to be a car factory
> and that means big bucks and big staff and that does not come together
> spontaneously or very quickly. They are finding that out in China
> right now, too. They got over 100 car factory brands, just like in the
> USA back 100 years ago. In the end, there will probably be three over
> there, too, plus whatever foreign brands survive.
>

Ironic how this country actually has more auto manufacturers now than
ever before.  They have foreign names but many are built right here in
the states.  The old standards are still built here but with foreign
parts.

> > Even Gates, who I despise, has led to many positives along
> > with the negatives.
>
> Fine, I have a wee little bit less venom for him since he donated a
> bunch of money to his foundation and at least he has not built big
> obscene yachts like Larry Ellison has.
>
> =A0Without a company like Microsoft, would the
>
> > personal computer revolution have come as far as it has?
>
> Look at Linux. If it were given the same chance. Even better, look at
> BSD.
>
> =A0We will
>
> > never know but I doubt it.
>
> I gave my vote just above.
>
> > > Recently, I've done a lot of reading about the kings, kingdoms,
> > > barons, and serfs in medieval England, back 500-1000-1500 years ago,
> > > and even in Mesopotamia 3000 years ago. Same basic deal: how a small
> > > number of guys parasitize a large number of underling serfs/peasants
> > > for monetary gain, power gain, and also get the underlings to bleed
> > > and die in wars.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > There will always be those who exploit for personal gain. =A0It
doesn't
> > have to be a robber-baron to do so, it happens at all levels.
>
> Well, I don't care if you steal pensils at work or make xeroxes of
> dirty jokes, but if you lay off 20,000 guys who bring food home to
> another 30,000 human beings and tell them "We can find cheap flesh
> someplace so we at the top can get big bonuses and upvalued stock
> optione" then I'm gonna have unkind thoughts for you.
>
> Ever read "Barbarians at the Gate" all about Ross Johnson and RJR
> Nabisco? Biggest LBO of the last 20 years and did a tremendous amount
> of damage for nothing.- Hide quoted text -
>

I would love to agree with you without reservation but I can't
totally.  Hell, I get pissed at it all but know that there is more to
it than what we want to believe.  I have seen a lot of noble companies
fall by the wayside over the years because they refused to make the
hard decisions necessary to survive.  It does little good to try and
save the jobs of a few at the cost of everyone.  On the other hand, a
poorly managed company will be a poorly managed company no matter
where the employees are or how much you pay them.