On Apr 27, 12:22=A0am, darsiau...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Apr 26, 10:14 pm, The Black Monk <ch....@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
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> > On Apr 26, 10:43 pm, darsiau...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
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> > > On Apr 26, 11:48 am, MTRP=99 <Mir.Topol...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > >http://counterpunch.org/moses04262008.html
>
> > > Sure, Chicago is a city of almost 4 million people. There is crime.
> > > There is poverty. There are alot of guns. There is also alot of
> > > prosperity, expansive public space, excellent public trans****tation
> > > and a vibrant cultural life.
>
> > > But in the end - it's safer here than pretty much anywhere in
Brazil.
>
> > > Vidas
>
> > Actually Chicago is somewhat Brazil-like (I am basing this, of course,
> > on my second-hand knowledge of Brazil), with segregated ghettoes and
> > prosperous neighborhoods. =A0The prosperous areas are about as safe as
> > Europe; the ghettoes are probably reminiscent of, though not nearly as
> > bad as, City of God.
>
> Problem is, BM, its not 1972 anymore. The possibility of seeing a
> boarded up home a few doors down from a million dollar newly
> constructed home exist in pretty much any Chicago neighborhood. As far
> as segregation goes - its more economic than ethnic or racial.
> Peteris' favorite Pilsen is undergoing gentrification in a big way.
> South and west loop factory districts are now urban loft centers.
>
> Unlike Brazil - I would challenge you to point out even one Chicago
> shanty village of dirt poor residents with open ditch based sewers
> flowing with human waste and no running water or reliable electricity.
> Brazil has literally millions who live under those conditions.
I said it wasn't as bad as Brazil's slums. But much of the South Side
resembles Brazil more than any place in Europe or Canada does.
> Homes in even the lousiest Chicago neighborhoods have heat and air
> conditioning,
Not the latter, remember all those deaths in the late 1990's hear
wave? My apartment didn't have AC, although the ten+ foot ceilings
and thick walls made it cool.
> safe, clean running water and underground sanitary
> sewers. This is Brazil like to you ? Are you serious ?
>
>
>
> > The author's call to provide recreation in the ghettoes is laughable;
> > the swimming pools placed in the Cabrini Green housing project were
> > shut down within weeks because the nihilistic residents shattered
> > glass bottles inthem.
>
> The article was laughable as it ignores the gang issue and gang
> culture.
Yes.
> > Chicago's business-oriented culture was shocking by civilized Europe's
> > standards =A0but has long been eclipsed in that way by American-
> > society.
>
> Business oriented ? What city anywhere isnt business oriented ?
> Chicago is also very much labor oriented and takes many cues from the
> european labor movements - natural given that much of the Chicago
> union labor forces have recent emmigre European roots.
True, but it was also been considered the ultimate example of pure raw
capitalism in its day, much more so than other places, the wonder of
its age, the place about which Bismarck said, "I wish I could go to
America if only to see Chicago"
> =A0Chicago remains the last and youngest American (and
>
> > therefore Western) real city - after Chicago it's all uniform,
> > standard, interchangeable utalitarian suburbia, whether it's called
> > L.A., the New South, Denver, etc. etc.
>
> Given that Chicago as an urban center is older than any of the
> examples you cite - are we talking about the same Chicago ?
Er...the others aren't real cities. Chicago is the youngest and last
real city.
> Chicago - incor****ated 1837 - population over a million after 1888
> Denver - incor****ated 1861 - but Denvers growth has been marginal
> since 1950.
> Los Angeles - Incor****ated 1850 but didnt experience much growth until
> after the first quarter of the 20th century.
>
> New south ? Like Atlanta ?
>
> Incor****ated 1847 as a railroad town of 2500. City growth is largely
> post WW2.
That's what I'm saying - Chicago was the last place to develop in
America that was/is a real city. After Chicago concentrations of
people ceased taking shape in the form of cities.
regards,
BM
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