On 11 Maijs, 18:20, hol...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Eugene Holman) wrote:
> In article
> <66d35fc1-61d0-40f7-9274-4d33c84b3...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> =?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris_Cedri=F2=F0_=28Peteris_Cedrins=29?=
>
> <cedr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> <deletions>
>
>
>
> > Hey, my reaction was to a single phrase by Eugene --
>
> > > > The two protracted wars that the United
> > > > States has been waging in Afghanistan and Iraq have produced
nothing
> > > > tangible
>
> > Using logic even MTRP must acknowledge -- my point is that there's
> > plenty that's _tangible_.
>
> Point taken. I should have hedged my phrase with a "virtually".
I don't think hedging cuts it, no. I think every girl educated and
every road built matters a lot, and that's more tangible than anything
else.
> > I very well know that Eugene will indulge in Homanesque howling
> > defending and/or ignoring Russia, Myanmar, Islamists, etc. to the end
> > of his days -- if this was 1938 or so,would he be explaining how Nazi
> > Germany is on the democratic path and Weimar meant chaos?
>
> When commenting on one issue it is not generally wise to drag in
> everything but the kitchen sink.
Absolutely. But you've been a broken record here since time
immemorial. You seduced a few people long ago, when no one could say
with certainty where Russia was going,. Henry won that game hands
down, sorry, and even Hui did -- Russia is goin where Russia has
always gone.
I think you lost those of us who try to be a bit more open-minded when
you defended the genocide in Chechnya, and I know you know what I
mean.
Currently, I think even Henry beats you 99% of the time, sorry.
He just hit the nail on the head, too --
<<Holmanian imitation of Chomsky-speak happily deleted>>
Your crap expired years ago, Eugene -- and you don't even bother to
refry it. Autopilot.
> I never ignore Russia. Myanmar seems to be almost as silly a country as
> North Korea, but other than being saddened by the fate that has recently
> befallen so many of its people, it is not a place that I think about all
> that much, even if I am aware of and distressed by its disregard for
basic
> human rights.
See the other threads. Karlamov claims that the UN is effective.
Russia and China are defending Myanmar even as we speak. Myanmar is
exporting rice, refusing aid, and printing generals' names on the aid
it does distribute. Don't think about it all that much. Cute. Russia
thinks about it.
> As to the early days of the Hitler regime, the case is more complex. The
> first few years saw a clear improvement in social order, employment, and
> national pride. There were even attempts, nowadays generally overlooked
or
> forgotte, to solve the "Jewish question" in Germany by reaching an
> agreement with Zionist organizations and allowing an orderly flow of
Jews
> to emigrate from the Reich and settle in Palestine. The price paid for
the
> improvements of Wiemar that marked the first years of the Hitler regime
> was the militarization of society, the persecution of selected
minorities,
> and a gradual entrenchment of a misanthropic, undemocratic mindset, one
> that eventually accepted mass murder as an acceptable methodology for
> solving societal problems. Hitler and his inner circle had a set of
> objectives that would have been good for what they considered to be the
> best of the Germans, but horrible for just about everyone else. Putin
and
> Medvedev are far more internationally minded and they see Russia being a
> prosperous, respected, and constructive member of the internatonal
> community as good for Russia as well as good for its neighbors and the
> world.
I couldn't even get through that paragraph, sorry.
> We were primarily dealing with Russia. Having followed Soviet/Russian
> issues since I first starting studying Russian half a century ago
> (September 1958), I am simply not as pessimistic about where Russia is
or
> where it is going as many people here seem to be. There is no royal road
> to or one-size-fits-all form of democracy. Russia tried an unrestrained
> form during the Yeltsin era and got burned. It is now paving its own
path
> and doing much better; the most important factor being the development
of
> a sophisticated and travelled middle class that knows how Russia stacks
up
> against the rest of the world and understands what remains to be done.
If
> we have learned one thing and nothing else from developments in Russia
> since the collapse of the USSR, it is that you cannot run until you have
> learned to crawl and walk first.
Many people, including Russians not as gullible and anachronistic as
you, would say you are out of your mind.
The main thing I get from what you write is that (a) you don't give a
shit about democracy, and (b) you will apolofize for everything Russia
does.
> > Probably
> > not, because Gene, more than anybody I've ever met, is an unchanging
> > product of the _gaism=E7nas_his time.
>
> The exotic word did not show up on my display. Could you xlain what it
was
> supposed to be?
>
> > One worries about apples that
> > never rot.
>
> Thre are (quasi-)eternal truths. One of them is that Russia is big and
> cannot be ignored.
Nope -- never ignore it. Who was urging that?
> > Anyway, it's fascinating.
>
> Fascinating indeed. Russia is arguably a better place than it has ever
> been before in its history, by no means a pleasant country to live in
yet,
> but with most of the structures in place to evolve into a serious and
> constructive major player on the world stage. Yes, it has warts and it
is
> not above playing cynical games for short-term objectives or to save
face.
> Unlike a certain superpower that I would rather not name, it has learned
> that there is no future in fighting dirt-poor desert peoples with 21st
> century weaponry, and that waging "wars" against abstractions such as
> terrorism and drugs is counterproductive.
Terrorism is such an abstraction. Building/rebuilding a couple of
thousand schools is so intangible.
/P
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