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Culture > Baltics > Re: Putin's gam...
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Re: Putin's gambit

by holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eugene Holman) May 11, 2008 at 10:01 PM

In article
<1fdeacbc-3268-49f5-ac93-cdc45abff784@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris_Cedri=F2=F0_=28Peteris_Cedrins=29?=
<cedrins@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> On 11 Maijs, 18:20, hol...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (Eugene Holman) wrote:
> > In article
<deletions>
> 
> > We were primarily dealing with Russia. Having followed Soviet/Russian
> > issues since I first starting studying Russian half a century ago
> > (September 1958), I am simply not as pessimistic about where Russia is
or
> > where it is going as many people here seem to be. There is no royal
road
> > to or one-size-fits-all form of democracy. Russia tried an
unrestrained
> > form during the Yeltsin era and got burned. It is now paving its own
path
> > and doing much better; the most im****tant factor being the development
of
> > a sophisticated and travelled middle class that knows how Russia
stacks up
> > against the rest of the world and understands what remains to be done.
If
> > we have learned one thing and nothing else from developments in Russia
> > since the collapse of the USSR, it is that you cannot run until you
have
> > learned to crawl and walk first.
> 
> Many people, including Russians not as gullible and anachronistic as
> you, would say you are out of your mind.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

Power was handed over peacefully in Russia last week for the first time in
a thousand years of Russian history. You evidently do not regard this as
an accomplishment, many people, by no means all "gullible" and
"anachronistic" regard it as extremely significant, both historically and
symbolically.

I see hundreds of middle-class Russian tourists every day, since one of
the three star hotels that they stay at is right down the street from the
university. These are not the vodka-hawking muzhiks and "professionals" of
fiteen years ago, these are well-dressed, sophisticated looking people who
eat, drink, and shop just like tourists from any other developed
countries. Russia cannot evolve into a strong democracy without a solid
middle class. These people represent the first generation of such a middle
class.

> The main thing I get from what you write is that (a) you don't give a
> **** about democracy, 

I am very concerned about democracy, but I understand that it cannot be
imposed from the outside, particularly not on a country totally lacking a
tradition of democracy. 

The advice about jump-starting to democracy that the Russians accepted
uncritically after the fall of the USSR did few people any good, showed
what kinds of greedy predators commnism had produced, and generally gave
democracy a bad name ­ "dermocracy" ­ as some Russians claa it. A
prerequisite for democracy in a country with the size and political
traditions of Russia is a modi*** of prosperity and stabiity. Here, Putin
has delivered where Yeltsin failed, even if it meant backstepping to some
degree with respect to some rather basic freedoms. Russians can still read
and write what they want, nobody cares what kind of printed matter you
bring into or take out of the country, the ruble is now a solid currency
accepted at home and abroad just like any other convertible currency, and,
most im****tantly, Russians are free to enter and leave their country as
they want. This is quite rearkable compared to the situation even fifteen
years ago. The government is criticized discretely in the independent
media and outrageously on the internet, the forum for genuine and intense
debate among politically conscious young Russians. Publi****ng crap about
the president intending to ditch his wife and marry a gymnast of his
daughter's age is a good way to get the authorities on your tail, as it is
in many other countries.

Building democracy in the United States took almost two hundred years, and
the structure is not yet finished yet while showing signs of wear and
tear, at least as far as presidential politics and the emergence of
political dynasties is concerned. Russia has been experimenting with
democracy for less than two deades and, all things considered, it has come
much further than most of us would have dared imagine back in 1991.

> and (b) you will apolofize for everything Russia
> does.

There is no apologizing. Russia is to be commended for getting the
foundations in order for what might evolve into a form of democracy suited
for a country of its size, temperament, and traditions. It doesn't behave
in the manner that many in the West would like it to behave, but neither
has the West behaved towards Russia in the manner in which it would have
liked it to behave. 

The ong and the short of it is that even a person with a KGB background
such as former president Vladimir Putin understands that, given the
alternatives, some kind of democracy is the best way of ensuring that
Russia meets its aspirations of becoming a responsible and constructive
power on the world stage in the post-American age. It is no accidet that
his chosen successor is a former legal scholar who, more than many
Russians, understands the im****tance of the rule of law. It will take time
before words are transformed into deeds, but you have to start somewhere.

><deletions>

Regards,
Eugene Holman
 




 49 Posts in Topic:
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-10 13:10:03 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-10 03:57:28 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-11 12:43:03 
ISAF "wonders" in Afghanistan [Was: Putin's gambit]
Andrzej Adam Filip <an  2008-05-11 18:35:50 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?windows-1252?Q?MTRP=99?  2008-05-10 04:45:12 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?windows-1252?Q?MTRP=99?  2008-05-11 04:13:12 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-11 07:30:44 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-11 18:20:02 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-11 10:51:48 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-11 11:18:19 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-11 22:01:04 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-11 22:21:00 
Re: Putin's gambit
vello <vellokala@[EMAI  2008-05-11 23:26:15 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-12 17:23:18 
Re: Putin's gambit
vello <vellokala@[EMAI  2008-05-12 11:11:05 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-13 08:37:06 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-13 04:18:49 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-13 17:22:03 
Re: Putin's gambit
"Henry Alminas"  2008-05-13 10:41:52 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-13 22:01:41 
Re: Putin's gambit
Dmitry <dmitrijsfedoto  2008-05-13 12:44:21 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-15 07:14:05 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-15 18:10:03 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-15 08:44:49 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-16 13:31:19 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-16 05:20:42 
Re: Putin's gambit
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-16 05:28:41 
Re: Putin's gambit
The Black Monk <ch.mon  2008-05-16 10:12:45 
Re: Putin's gambit
holman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-17 08:57:47 
Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-25 13:05:47 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
Vladimir Makarenko <vm  2008-05-25 23:14:29 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
Dmitry <dmitrijsfedoto  2008-05-25 15:55:54 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-25 22:56:05 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
"captain." <  2008-05-26 10:42:24 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
ostap_bender_1900@[EMAIL   2008-05-25 23:00:21 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-25 23:22:11 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
ostap_bender_1900@[EMAIL   2008-05-26 00:02:38 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-26 03:38:46 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-26 06:59:41 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
Vladimir Makarenko <vm  2008-05-27 20:22:33 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
=?ISO-8859-13?Q?P=E7teris  2008-05-26 07:02:41 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
"J. Anderson" &  2008-05-27 00:21:20 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
The Black Monk <ch.mon  2008-05-26 21:40:51 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
The Black Monk <ch.mon  2008-05-26 21:51:29 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
"J. Anderson" &  2008-05-27 12:33:31 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
The Black Monk <ch.mon  2008-05-27 19:37:19 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
Dmitry <dmitrijsfedoto  2008-05-30 12:17:39 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
ostap_bender_1900@[EMAIL   2008-06-01 16:47:23 
Re: Our Generation's Spanish Civil War [Was: Re: Putin's gambit]
ostap_bender_1900@[EMAIL   2008-06-01 16:53:51 

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tan13V112 Fri Jul 25 3:24:28 CDT 2008.