Vladimir Makarenko wrote:
> vello wrote:
>> On May 28, 3:48 am, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> vello wrote:
>>>> On May 26, 7:13 am, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>>> And again you fall into Baltic trap -
>>>> you know well russians in Baltics have in fact more rights then
>>>> minorities in other countries mostly.
>>> just wonder how one can have rights without having a pass****t?
Another
>>> miracle? Is it certified by Pope?
>>
>> No. If one wants to vote he must opt for citizen****p and get that
>> pass****t. Getting Estonian pass****t is much-much easier then with
>> almost any other pass****t in the Europe.
>
>
> What you are missing is that demise of the USSR brought these people
> nothing - as they had dog rights under Commies the same they got under
> new regime. As they could have "theoretically" got all possible rights
> under Soviet constitution including a pass****t to travel - the same they
> got in a born again Estonia.
> For these people nothing changed - they just faced deeper degree of
> poverty. Hence their attitude.
>
>>
>>> Besides we just a year ago had seen Tallinn's acid test. The results
>>> definitely points to a screaming problem pushed away out of sight
under
>>> the carpet.
>>
>> Yes and no. Surely there is a lot to do with integrating our russian-
>> speakers - and "one year anniversary" of mentioned happening with
>> hundreds of journalists from Moscow leaving leaving totally peaceful
>> Tallinn with unpleasantness shows that something Estonia was able to
>> do. But april 2007 had nothing to do with pass****ts - it was
>> manifestation of people just don't accepting the fact they are not
>> ruling maiority any more. Other problem is - our russian speakers live
>> in Russian media world and it makes understanding a life around them
>> not easier for them.
>
> I obviously do not know the reality on the ground in Estonia, so the
> only approach I can apply is common sense and some knowledge of social
> technologies. And all that makes picture rather bleak: how it looks for
> me you guys hoped that such a magic wand as "market economy" and free
> press will turn non Estonian part of the country population in either
> emigrants or loyal to Estonia's culture citizens. Neither did happen for
> a good reason - that never worked anywhere before.
> The game of blame is simple and all one has to do is to spend enough
> money on PR. It doesn't solve the problem however - it stays there.
> Instead of hiring PR people you should have hired social technologies
> people - today there are enough around and deal with the problem, not
> the PR fallout. Or Tallinn's events circa April 2007 (How much money was
> wasted on street riot police equipment?). Come on - it is what - 16
> years of Independence? You can blame Russia and Russians till the end
> days of this planet but will it change the situation? I mean - let
> writers do that, people of politics are supposed and PAID to solve
> problems.
>
>>>> So only way to make that
>>>> "mistake" for Russia is to stop kid making and become minority in the
>>>> same very Russia. But in this case maiority on that vaste territory
>>>> will be for sure not from Europe but from China - or from former
>>>> soviet Central Asia.
>>> China is not a problem. It will never be - within next 100 years - to
>>> reach hi tech level of Russian weapons. China knows that. Russia too.
>>> Hence both are friendly with the US.
>>
>> Some modern wars are fight by other means then weapons. All Estonia
>> laughs back in 1989-1991 when soviet army units start to build machine
>> gun dots around their bases - for a case of "nationalist attack" :-)
>> Differently from Hitler who thinks that future of Germany is tied with
>> his personal lifespan, so he was hurry all the time, chinese think
>> time is a warrior in their army. They will opt for Siberia when they
>> become clear maiority there - and they will opt not as Chinese state,
>> but as tens (hundreds?) of millions ordinary people living in siberia
>> and wanting " just freedom". And no hope to solve the problem killing
>> them down, China is not Chechenia - for world, chinese economy is much
>> more im****tant then russian one.
>
> Russia isn't threatened to any extent in any foreseen future by Chinese
> military might. If however Russians turn to be so stupid as to allow
> uncontrolled immigration - then so be it - God will blacken out the
> Russian entry in his book.
> But being myself a Russian and of opinion that I know my ilk I really
> doubt that outcome. Indeed I cannot see a single chance for it.
> I am more concerned about armed to their teeth Canadians (even their
> passenger plane(!!!) manufacturer is called "Bombardier" - have you ever
> seen a nation so militaristic? and the only Canadian around introduces
> himself in a simple way: you privates, just call me "a captain" ) and
> vengeful imperialistic Finns.
>
> VM.
Oops, forgot to give almost irrelevant link - a view on EU Russia
realtion****p. Maybe you find it interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/may/23/eu.russia
VM.
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