"Chess One" <innes8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:lpmSi.312$Qj3.221@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Cloudberry@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <flink@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:bfqdnRSIgus0J4janZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> Well, first of all, it is good to read an intelligent article in these
>> Celtic groups, and not only intelligent but informative too.
>
> Credit is due in most part to James Orchard Halliwell.
>
>> The common phrase "a different kettle of fish" is of course "a kydel of
>> different fish". Concerning the Pilgrims, I presume you mean the
members
>> of the Pilgrim Church, which was an independent Congregationalist
>> Calvinist Church from Screwby in Nottingham****re. This bunch of
Calvinist
>> hinds and peasants were possible put off by the Archbishops of York,
>> whose summer residence was situated at Screwby. The reason why they
>> called themselves the Pilgrim Church is because they wanted to settle
in
>> Holland. This was illegal as far as Catholics and Independent
Protestants
>> were concerned. The "Pilgrims" went to Kings Lyn, but the captain of
the
>> ****p whom they paid to take them to Holland sailed away without them.
The
>> "Pilgrims" then went to Boston in England, but as they were embarking
the
>> local sherrif turned up.
>> The boat sailed away with about 50% of the Pilgrims on board, who
finally
>> settled in Delph in Holland. Of the remaining pilgrims the men ran away
>> leaving the women and children behind. The sherrif arrested them, took
>> them before a magistrate who wrote out and signed a mitimus, and the
>> sherrif escorted them to Lincoln gaol (i.e. jail, I think it was
Lincoln
>> jail), the captain of the jail refuse to admit the captives, and so did
>> the captains of every other jail, and the captives were even turned
away
>> from a penitentiary, so no gaols or penitentiaries would take them in.
>> Meanwhile the sight of these bedraggled women and childten being
marched
>> from place to place aroused a great deal of public concern and they
were
>> eventually released. No members of the Pilgrim Church, not even one,
ever
>> went to North America. That was a different tale. A bunch of about 100
>> English Calvinists, following the exaple of the Pilgrim Church, hired
an
>> old bum boat called the Mayflower
>
> Yes - these very people! There is an excellent new book 'Mayflower'
> written by an American historian who lives on Nantuckett, Nathaniel
> Philbrick. It particularly contrast Pilgrims with Puritans - and begins
> where you have, then continues the story until King Philip's War.
>
>> that was sailing for New Amsterdam (New York). The captain ended up off
>> Cape Cod where the captain ordered these Calvinists to disembark, and
>> left them to die after being marooned on Cape Cod. The rest is history.
>
> The landing was on 11/11. I think he subsequently got them across the
bay
> to Falmouth, unsure if the Mayflower did that, or a ****p's boat. The
> Mayflower returned to England and rotted in some Thames estuary.
Falmouth
> had probably recently suffered smallpox, brought to New England by cod
> fisherman landing further up the coast in Maine, and indeed, the
> already-named Cape Cod. This had reduced the native population by some
> 80%. The pilgrims couldn't understand why the land was so empty of
people,
> especially in consideration of the number of settlements. By the time
the
> next boatload of immigrants arrived, the originals were reduced by 50%.
>
>> There has never been any connection between the now defunct Pilgrim
>> Church and New England, it is all bunkum dreamed up by Cotton Mathers,
>> both names Cotton and Mathers are North-West English names. Because the
>> North of England was once a Roman colony the old Roman laws and
taxation
>> rules continued to be applied,
>
> [just a note, with a question; we call the subsequent A. Sax from
outside
> the Danelaw, and midlands-north, 'Mercian', though that wasn't its name
-
> we don't know the name they gave their own language, and had to call it
> something, hence 'Mercian'. But has that name some earlier significance
in
> the North? is Mercian reflecting 'mersey' or MERKE [A. Sax]; dark,
gloomy
> <laugh>. Halliwell gives MERCENRIKE a definition of 'the kingdom of
> Mercia' and MERCERYE, 'goods sold by a mercer'.
>
> The chapmen of suche mercerye
> /Gower, MS Soc Antiq. 134 f 81
>
> Or indeed, is the word from q-Celtic? Which John Fowles prefers to think
> [mostly of p-Celtic] is the real sponsor of our current language as
> coupled with the language of the incoming Saxons; so he coins
> 'Anglo-Celtic' rather than Anglo Saxon.]
>
> Shakespeare uses COTED, to mean 'braided'. And COTE-HARDY means a 'close
> fitting body garment, buttoned all the way down the front, and reaching
> the middle of the thigh'. COTINGE: cutting [A. Sax.] But, in the south
> they have a few terms; in Suffolk they have COT-LAMB, a pet-lamb, and
> COTSWOLD LIONS are sheep, viz. "have at the lyons on cotsolde,"
Thersites,
> ap. Collier, ii 401. But here is a northern word: COTTED [Lincs] matted,
> entangled, also pronounced cottered and cotty. The only exact rendition
of
> Cotten is from Exmoor; 'to beat soundly.' COTTERLING; a cosset lamb, and
> COTTING; 'folding sheep in a barn'.
>
> MATHER is less succinct. One [North] definition gives MATTER; to approve
> of. MATTY means twisted. MATH; a mowing [Somerset]. And a MATHER proper
is
> 'the great ox-eyed daisy'. MODDER: "Lasse, girle, modder," Cotgrave -
and
> see /Mauther/ a term used by Ben Jonson, others. MAUT: may, can, might
> [North]
>
>> also agriculture such as Romano-British villas surrounded by small
Celtic
>> fields, and so on, as in Cornwall. It is a Northern English custom to
use
>> the surname of the wife's relatives as a Christian name, usually of the
>> Eldest Boy or girl, hence Ashley for boys and Beverley for girls.
Cotton
>> is a surname used as a Christian name. In addition there was no
>> connection at all with the Independent Calvinists who were marooned on
>> Cape Cod, not even with the Independent Calvinists of the Boston Bay
>> Company. There was not even any contact between the Pilgrim Church and
>> those members of the Church of England (by law established) who called
>> themselves, and were called by others, Puritans. In fact any Puritan
>> entering Boston with the intention of converting people to Anglicanism
>> was proptly expelled. One Puritan was driven out after have to pass the
>> gauntlet by having his back side slapped with the broad edge of the
>> swords of scornfull Independent Calvinists.
>
> Puritan preaching continued in the Americas - and they prosecuted
Quakers
> [making them flee Boston for Rhode Island],
and they enslaved and sent to
> Caribbean a few thousand natives.
Whatever, anything to make a dollar or two (Thaler, Austrian silver coin,
dollar, five ****llings, the same as a crown but minted outside London
Town,
the square mile that is.)!
>
>> The young women (and not so young) used to expose their breast in the
>> summer months, and spin yarn stark ****d, as was the general custom in
>> England at the time (but not now in our more enligtened times, what
>> Englishman today would want to look at firm young female breasts,
thighs,
>> bums, genitals, etc., when passing by a bevy of stak ****d beauties
>> sitting down, standing up, bending over, and so on, when our
enlightened
>> laws allow sodomy with boys of 16 years of age?). How can anyone, even
if
>> doped up with the latest American recreational drugs, imagine that such
>> people were Puritans?
I should have said 'Southern Englishmen'. They are a load of poof-das.
>
> Ay! Dorothy Hartley is good on the anthropology of the middle ages. But
to
> answer your question, because mass media simplifies, making homogenous
> cartoons of people - an understanding entirely analogous to mass-food in
> the USA, a sort of all-purpose baby-pap.
>
> Cordially, Phil Innes
>
By the way was John Cabot a certain Jean Cabot the Frenchman or a certain
Giovani Gabotti the Italian, no one seems to know whether the John/Jean,
Giovani Cabot/Cabotti who discovered America, discounting Eric the Read,
and
claimed it for England was a Frenchman or an Italian? And what about
Amorica
and the Amoricans of North West Gaul who invented the heavy oak timber
boats
that eventually became galeons. Is America named after Amorica? Who knows.
Or names after Amerigo Vispucchi. And what about those Native American who
got blown over the Atlantic and landed up in Gaul in BC times?
|
