Re: Bertrandon de la Brocquiere and the MACEDONIANS, Bulgarians, Greeks, Albanians ... of 1432-1433!

"ADR" <aretzios@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:2c9018cb-e8d6-4244-9813-7a5baad7ef38@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 May 6, 9:59 pm, "Krater Makedonski" <kra...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> The SALIENT point of the "story", Stefcho, is, as it can be seen
clearly,
> the MACEDONIANS did exist as an ethnos in the 15th C, separate to
> "Bulgar(ian)s", Greeks, etc, etc. No amount of political semantics and
> denials will cange that fact.

Unfortunately, my friend, the traveloque in question refers as
"Macedonia" the area covered by today's Greek Thrace and southern
Bulgaria.  The reason for this is pretty simple.  In the end of the
8th century AD, Empress Irene created the "Theme of Macedonia" (Thema
Makethonikon) which covered the area in question and was headquartered
in Hadrianople,  The reason for naming the area thus was because the
Imperial armies from Macedonia, camp followers and refugees had been
located there to face the threat of Arab and Bulgarian incursions.
Thus, all medieval references to Macedonia and the Macedonians are
applicable to this area not to the area of classical Macedonia.  In
fact, the name of Macedonia for this area persisted well into Ottoman
times, probably until the middle of the 17th century when the names of
Ottoman provinces (vilayets) started coming to wide use.

Listen, I suggest that you read this traveloque.  I also suggest that
you read countless historians who wrote about the Balkans from the 8th
to the 15th century (and there are many) and see what designations you
'll find about the people inhabiting what is now Macedonia and FYROM.
I think that snipets like this devoid of content and taken out of
context will only give you a bad case of indigestion.

In any case, many historians covered the events in the Balkans from
the 6th century to the 14th century with a lot of detail.   Don't you
think that the extensive details of the Slav invasions and the sieges
of Thessaloniki covered in the "Miracles of St. Demetrius" written by
a couple of bishops of Thessaloniki in the 6th to 7th century AD
should be regarded as very accurate documentation of what happened to
classical Macedonia.  The events of the 8th and 9th century are
covered by even better historians such as Theophanes the Chronographer
and George Syncellus.  Since Irene had a particular policy in the
Balkans, the actual events there and the peoples settled there are
very well covered.  I think that it would be instructive for you to
read about the campaign of general Stavrakios against the Slavs (and
the actual area covered by this campaign) which occured during the
reign of Irene.  And it was Irene "the Athenian" who established the
province of "Macedonia" which we discussed above.

You have failed to understand the "salient point", Anastasios, even though

it was spoon-fed to you. Your "embroidery" is just another, very similar 
version of Stefcho's political/geographical semantics,  a feeble attempt
to 
deny the undeniable and does NOT in any way change the fact (evidence) of 
the existence of MACEDONIANS in the 15th C, distinct from Greeks, 
Bulgarians, etc, etc... I reiterate, so that you can get this CLEARLY,
once 
and for all time - NO amount of political/geographical semantics used as 
counter arguments by you or anyone else can change the EVIDENCE for the 
EXISTENCE of MACEDONIANS distinct from Greeks, Bulgarians, etc, etc...