On May 13, 4:32=A0am, Mohammed the Holy ****er <Moonyon...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> so =A0Chinese =A0are =A0taking other =A0brotther 's =A0nations ?
>
> On May 12, 5:54=A0pm, mkao <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 12, 4:32=A0am, the =A0****ing Boudha <voivodv...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote=
:
>
> > > the =A0Chinese =A0language =A0has =A0nothing =A0to do =A0with
=A0Indo-=
European
> > > languages.
>
> > > Chinese =A0language properly =A0speaking =A0only =A0involves
=A0those =
=A0from
> > > North =A0China ,
> > > because =A0south =A0China =A0was =A0originally =A0not Chinese =A0but
=
=A0Yue tribes
> > > which
> > > included =A0Vietnamese =A0,
> > > =A0Muongs ,
> > > Miao,
> > > Taiwanese Aborignes ,
> > > Malays,
> > > Thai ,
> > > Mien =A0Nan ,
> > > Chao-Chou
> > > and =A0Shanghainese ,
>
> > > the =A0Vietnamese lived =A0as =A0far =A0north =A0as =A0Hang Chow in
50=
00 =A0BC
>
> > > 5000 years =A0ago, there was =A0no =A0such place =A0as =A0South
=A0Chi=
na ,
> > > because =A0South =A0China was Yueh or =A0Viet =A0territory which
inclu=
ded
> > > the =A0Thai -Kadai
> > > language , and =A0the language =A0of the =A0Aborigenes =A0of
=A0Taiwan=
who
> > > migrated =A0to =A0Nairu aand =A0to =A0New =A0Zealand.
>
> > > That =A0is =A0why =A0people =A0speak =A0about =A0the =A0Austronesian
l=
anguage
> > > because
> > > Austral means =A0south , and Austronesian =A0means south =A0language
,=
which
> > > means
> > > the =A0language =A0of the south =A0people which means =A0lands
=A0belo=
w the
> > > Changjiang =A0rever,
> > > because the =A0Changjiang River =A0was
> > > =A0the =A0dividing line =A0between tthe =A0Chinese who were
=A0nothern=
ers
> > > living north =A0above the Changjiang river
> > > and =A0the =A0non-Chinese =A0tribes =A0of =A0South land =A0 of the
Yue=
h
> > > territory =A0which was
> > > =A0 south =A0of the Chanjiang River .
>
> > > the =A0Chinese =A0north =A0of the =A0Chanjiang river invaded Yue
terri=
tory in
> > > 4000 BC
> > > =A0 because =A0of =A0copper =A0mines in Jiang- Xi =A0province ,
south =
of
> > > the =A0Chinagjiang =A0river ,
> > > just like the =A0Chinese =A0had =A0invaded =A0Malaysia =A0because
=A0o=
f =A0tin in
> > > Malaysia.
>
> > > the Chinese =A0needed =A0copper =A0to =A0make =A0bronze =A0wine
=A0ves=
sels =A0during
> > > the =A0Shan =A0Dynasty .
>
> > > the Chinese drove away =A0native =A0tribes =A0of =A0South =A0China ,
w=
hich
> > > originally was =A0called =A0Yue Territory,
> > > the =A0native =A0tribes =A0moved =A0west =A0to mountains,
> > > during the =A03 kingdoms =A0period ,
> > > there was a =A0struggle =A0in the =A0south =A0Austro land by the
=A0na=
tive
> > > people =A0to
> > > maintain their original =A0language =A0 during =A0the =A03
=A0kingdoms=
=A0period
> > > of history ,
> > > if the =A0Wu =A0kingdom =A0had =A0won against the =A0Wei =A0kingdom
=
=A0from the
> > > north =A0China,
> > > during the =A03 =A0kingdoms =A0period ,
> > > south =A0China today =A0would =A0not =A0be =A0speaking =A0Mandarin ,
> > > but
> > > Shanghainese =A0or =A0Muong languages.
>
> > > the =A0Chinese =A0language ,properly =A0speaking is =A0Mandarin ,
> > > not =A0Mien Nan,
> > > not =A0Muong ,
> > > not =A0Miao .
> > > not =A0Thai -Kadai,
> > > not Vietnamese of =A0Austronesia.
>
> > > the =A0Lao and the =A0Khmer =A0language is =A0Mundy =A0origine
=A0from=
west India.
>
> > > On May 12, 10:39=A0am, Barbie <nos...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > Origin of Chinese spoken languages
>
> > > > Part 1.
>
> > > > Around the world, spoken languages eventually leaded to
development =
of
> > > > various writing systems. An exception is Chinese spoken languages.
> > > > Contrary to other spoken languages, they were generated and
evolved =
from
> > > > a writing system, called Hanja or Hanzi, and not vice versa.
>
> > > > Chinese spoken language is probably unique in that they were
evolved=
from
> > > > written languages. It is comparable to a hypothetical scenario
where=
a
> > > > spoken language is evolved from mathematical expressions, which is
> > > > universal. Despite language barriers, scientists and
mathematicians
> > > > around the world can communicate with mathematical equations,
althou=
gh
> > > > the pronunciations of the mathematical symbols may be radically
diff=
erent
> > > > depending on their spoken languages. This is why Chinese people
can
> > > > communicate by their unique writing system, but may not understand
e=
ach
> > > > other by different spoken languages called Chinese dialects.
>
> > > > I have been curious about the origin of Chinese spoken languages,
Th=
ey
> > > > are radically different from neighbouring languages, especially
Alta=
ic.
> > > > The Chinese grammar is more similar to Indo-European rather than
Alt=
aic.
> > > > How could this have happened?
>
> > > > Several years ago, I read a very interesting article on the origin
o=
f
> > > > Chinese language:http://www.discover.com/issues=A1=A9/mar-
> > > > 96/features/empireofunifo=A1=A9rmi715/
>
> > > > In this article, the author attributed the uniformity of current
spo=
ken
> > > > Chinese languages (low diversity) to the political unification
ever =
first
> > > > achieved by the Chin emperor (221 BCE). He speculated that there
onc=
e
> > > > were far diverse spoken languages in the current Chinese
continent. =
He
> > > > cited Europe as an example, where far more diverse spoken
languages =
still
> > > > are existent, despite the similar area comparable with the modern
> > > > People's Republic of China.
>
> > > > I am not saying his idea is entirely wrong. I agree that it may
part=
ially
> > > > explain the uniformity in modern Chinese spoken languages.
However, =
the
> > > > major factor was the unification by the writing system called
Hanja.=
> > > > Hanja has been pronounced differently among groups, but could be
> > > > understood by writing. This is possible because Hanja has been
> > > > ideographic. Today, Koreans and Japanese also use Hanja, but
> > > > pronunciations are different. In summary, the Hanja was a kind of
> > > > universal symbols in the ancient Far East Asia, which is
comparable =
to
> > > > modern mathematical symbols, but more complex in the sense that
they=
can
> > > > be used beyond simple scientific representations to be adopted as
a =
way
> > > > of representing spoken languages at least partially.
>
> > > > I hypothesize that Chinese spoken languages were evolved based on
th=
e
> > > > Hanja writing system, not vice versa. I speculate that once there
we=
re so
> > > > many spoken words in ancient Chinese continent but most of them
were=
> > > > perished as the unification proceeded. In modern Korean and Japan
> > > > languages, there are hundred-thousand onomatopoeic/mimetic words
> > > > existent. In Chinese spoken languages, they even do not have a
chara=
cter
> > > > (or word in spoken Chinese) representing basic concepts, not to
> > > > mentioning lack of onomatopoeic/mimetic words. For example,
'sorry',=
> > > > 'girl', 'boy' are a kind of basic words found around the world,
but
> > > > Chinese characters simply do not have it. Once they had them, but
th=
ey
> > > > perished by the unification enforced by the unique writing system.
>
> > > > Part 2.
>
> > > > Chinese spoken languages are actually written languages, because
the=
y
> > > > were evolved from an ideographic script called Hanja or Kanji. I
pro=
vided
> > > > an additional evidence: tones in Chinese spoken languages.
>
> > > > Is there anybody who dares to argue that so much diverse tones
found=
in
> > > > modern Chinese existed before the invention of Hanja? It is
obvious =
to me
> > > > that tones have been developed to differentiate homonyms of Hanja
> > > > characters. Chinese people did not develop any writing system or
mod=
ified
> > > > Hanja to denote tones, again suggesting that Hanja was not evolved
f=
rom
> > > > spoken languages, but that Chinese spoken languages were modified
an=
d
> > > > changed to accomodate the Hanja scripts by sacrificing their
diversi=
ty
> > > > (or entropy in the sense of information capacity). The Hanja has
mol=
ded
> > > > Chinese spoken languages into current forms of Chinese dialects.
The=
> > > > entropy of spoken Chinese words greatly decreased but the entropy
of=
> > > > tones increased pro****tionally.
>
> > > > Part 3
>
> > > > Monosyllabic, isolating spoken language could not exist.
>
> > > > Would it be just a coincidence that Chinese spoken language is
isola=
ting
> > > > exactly the same way as the Hanja scripts? People and so-called
ling=
uists
> > > > want to believe that Hanja scripts represented so well ancient
Chine=
se
> > > > spoken languages to be 100% isolating as we see now. This defies
our=
> > > > common sense. Spoken languages in the world are typologically
catego=
rized
> > > > as 1) inflectional, 2) agglutinative and 3) isolating languages.
Chi=
nese,
> > > > Vietnamese, Cantonese, Cambodian, and possibly Riau Indonesian
belon=
g to
> > > > the isolating languages. Except the last, the isolating feature is
> > > > related with Chinese influence. Thus, the Chinese spoken language
is=
the
> > > > unique isolating language in the world. Because of their enormous
> > > > population size, linguists probably had no choice but to include
the=
ir
> > > > language as a major category of spoken languages. But, it is
nearly
> > > > impossible that 100% isolating language could ever exist. As we
see =
in
> > > > Vietnamese and Tibetan, a certain degree of inflection is needed
to
> > > > function as a spoken language.
>
> > > > Another unique feature of Chinese is being 'monosyllabic'
according =
the
> > > > definition of a Chinese syllable. Vietnamese also has been
tradition=
ally
> > > > considered to be a monosyllabic isolating
> > > >
languagehttp://www.geocities.com/SoHo/=A1=A9Den/5908/language/intro.=
html.
>
> > > > However, Vietnamese shows a pronounced tendency for using bi- or
> > > > polysyllabic structures. And some suggest that once Vietnamese
were
> > > > polysyllabic. This Vietnamese example suggest that it is quite
possi=
ble
> > > > that at least some of current Chinese dialects were once
polysyllabi=
c.
>
> > > > Now, Chinese languages have two idiosyncratic features:
monosyllabic=
+
> > > > isolating. Is it possible that "monosyllabic" + "isolating"
language=
s
> > > > could ever have existed in ancient time before an invention of
writi=
ng
> > > > system? My answer is definitely "No". But, I agree that it could
exi=
st
> > > > for very, very primitive societies. But, if any society evolved to
a=
> > > > degree of sophistication to invent any writing system,
monosyllabic,=
> > > > isolating languages were simply unimaginable. Even with just
isolati=
ng
> > > > features, it is difficult to figure out
>
> ...
>
> read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
so you are evil.
|
