On Apr 1, 10:30=A0am, Fred J. McCall <fmcc...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> :On Apr 1, 9:40=A0am, Fred J. McCall <fmcc...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote::>
"ltl=
....@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> :>
> :> :On Apr 1, 8:46=A0am, Fred J. McCall <fmcc...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> :> :> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> :> :> :
> :> :> :... and the USA has
> :> :> :more incarcerated people (by gross number AND per capita) than
> :> :> :any other nation on Earth...
> :> :> :
> :> :>
> :> :> Not true. =A0Even using 'official numbers China has a higher
> :> :> incarceration number. =A0China has almost half as many people in
> :> :> 'administrative detention' as we have in our entire prison system.
=
=A0If
> :> :> you count those people as 'incarcerated' (which they are), China
als=
o
> :> :> has a higher incarceration rate than the United States.
> :> :
> :> :Show you numbers and sources please.
> :> :
> :>
> :> I think it's interesting that you didn't bother to make this same
> :> request when the posting had a pro-China anti-US slant.
> :
> :I asked because your number is not I had readed from Chiense re****ts.
> :Obviously I misunderstood your "official number." "U.S. State
> :Department Human Rights Re****t ... estimated... =A0" is really not
> :official numbers but unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable speculattion.
> :No?
> :
>
> Probably a MINIMUM number. =A0The actual number is almost assuredly
> larger.
Don't know anything about this estimate. If it comes with a procedural
note, the procedure and the assumption behind the ****cedure could be
evaluated. As is, the number is totally meaningless.
> So now your 'defense' is that China simply refuses to release one of
> the germane numbers?
What defense? Why I need any defense? You are the one who made the
'official number' claim. Not me.
>
> :>
> :> Using the same source for both sets of numbers (so that the same
> :> things are being measured), that being the International Centre For
> :> Prison Studies at King's College London law school at the University
> :> of London:
> :>
> :> UNITED STATES
> :>
>
:>http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_country....=
> :>
> :> Prison population total (including pre-trial detainees / remand
> :> prisoners) 2,258,983 at 31.12.2006 (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics
> :> - a further 92,854 were held in juvenile facilities at 29.3.2006, a
> :> further 1,745 in 'jails in the Indian country' at 30.6.2004, 14,482
in
> :> immigration facilities at 31.12.2006 and 1,944 in military facilities
> :> at 31.12.2006)
> :>
> :> Prison population rate (per 100,000 of national population) 751 based
> :> on an estimated national population of 300.8 million at end of 2006
> :> (from U.S. Census Bureau statistics)
> :>
> :> CHINA
> :>
>
:>http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_country....=
> :>
> :> Prison population total (including pre-trial detainees / remand
> :> prisoners) 1,565,771 at 31.12.2005 (national prison administration -
> :> sentenced prisoners in Ministry of Justice prisons only, excluding
> :> pre-trial detainees and those held in administrative detention.)
There
> :> are two types of administrative detention: according to Chinese
> :> government statistics there were more than 500,000 serving
> :> administrative detention in re-education-through-labour camps in
2005,
> :> and it is re****ted (U.S. State Department Human Rights Re****t 2005)
> :> that in 2004 there were 350,000 in a second type of administrative
> :> detention, which is for drug offenders and prostitutes. The number of
> :> pre-trial detainees is not known but has been estimated at about
> :> 100,000. If this is correct the total prison population in China is
> :> about 2,500,000.
> :>
> :> Prison population rate (per 100,000 of national population) 119 based
> :> on an estimated national population of 1,319.7 million at end of 2005
> :> (from United Nations figures) - sentenced prisoners in Ministry of
> :> Justice prisons only. (A total prison population of 2,500,000 would
> :> raise the prison population rate to 189 per 100,000 of the national
> :> population.)
> :>
> :> To summarize, when you compare apples to apples, you get:
> :>
> :> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0US =A0 =A0 =A0
=
=A0 =A0 =A0 CHINA
> :> Total Prisoners =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2,258,983 =A0 =A0 =A0 2,500,000
> :> Incarceration Rate =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0751 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0189
> :>
> :> --
> :> "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
> :> =A0territory."
> :> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0=
=A0 --G. Behn
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