On Apr 20, 7:26=A0am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:43:02 -0700 (PDT), "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
>
>
>
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> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >On Apr 19, 4:42?pm, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 06:14:00 -0700 (PDT), "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
>
> >> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >The issue is not pieces and bits of information. The issue is a
> >> >coherent, easy to understand, easy to accept narratve. The "free
> >> >tibet" narrative is simple. They, the Tibetans, are poor but
> >> >spiritural. They exist in their little paradise on the top of the
> >> >world practicing their Tibetan buddhiam. The Chinese were and are
the
> >> >same old communists, they invaded Tibet. They killed the Tobetans by
> >> >the millions. Occupy their country, pollute their pure land and
> >> >continue to oppress them. People like the DL, have 50 years to
> >> >practive this narrative. China must come up with an equally coherent
> >> >and convincing narrative. It need Tibetans as its spokenpersons.
Only
> >> >they can speak China's narrtive from the first person perspective.
> >> >Only they can say they are not the victims but the beneficiaries.
They=
> >> >could say that convincely without withwa****ng China's previous
policy
> >> >mistakes.
>
> >> >http://info.tibet.cn/news/xzxw/szfl/W020050316571674908696.jpg(3yr
> >> >old picture of the Tibtan Youth Association)
>
> >> I'm sure your point is a valid point, but we must look at the broader
> >> picture. We do not fight a propaganda war with another propaganda
war.
>
> >It is not a propaganda war. It is about who should represent the
> >Tibetans. I know and you know the Chairwoman of the Tibetan Youth
> >Association is right when she said neither the DL nor the Tibetan
> >Youth Congress represent Tibet. But the western world does not know.
> >Many well intentioned westerners pour money into "free tibet" thinking
> >they are helping Tibet and Tibetans. But they are mostly benefitting a
> >small number of Tibetan exiles. This got to be stopped. Given that
> >westerners are fascinated by Tibet, the fabled Shangri-La, they will
> >not stop by themselves. Someone has to explain to them who are the
> >real representatives.
>
> I'm sure the struggle for truth is a continuous and glorious battle,
> but I'm not sure how many westerners are ready to accept the truth. If
> they are, then there wouldn't be such controversy to begin with. In my
> opinion, it's not because we haven't told them what they need to hear
> in understanding the real situation in Tibet. It's because no matter
> what we say, they simply would not listen. They only want to see the
> Chinese government meets their demand. They have no desire to learn
> the real situation in Tibet. To them, they already know it all.
>
I have repeated many times. The so called "free tibet" movement,
actually "free tibet from non-Tibetans" movement is a racist movement.
It reflect western racism against the Chinese people. it is no
coincidence that all China ba****ngs are variation of the "Chinese
people are stupid" theme. However, racism or not, China still has to
deal with westerners and western countries. In the long run, the
Chinese people can show themselves to be as intelligent as any other
people. How about the in the short run?
> >> If we do, we have been led by the enemy to do their betting. And no
> >> one excepts the west has the ability and the resource to win a
> >> propaganda campaign. No, we don't need to fight on their terms.
> >> Everything we do, we have to do it on our terms and the west is
> >> required to make an effort to appreciate our good terms.
>
> >Western countries have put down their markers. The question is not
> >about fighting on their terms or not. The question is how to respond.
> >The basis of Sarkosy's grandstanding is the popularity of Tibet. For
> >some complicated reasons, =A0westerners want to be in contact with
> >Tibet. Sup****ting the exiles is their way of making contract with
> >Tibet. And of course, the message from the exiles is "China was bad,
> >China is bad, and China will be bad." Organizations like TAR Youth
> >Association can provide the westerners another way to access Tibet and
> >Tibetans. An analogy. Many oversea Chinese sup****ted the KMT because
> >it is their link to China. The need is psychological, not physical. In
> >America, they also sent their kids to learn Chinese language and
> >culture in the weekends. Taiwan used to provide this class or for a
> >low norminal fee. As long as their kids are attending Taiwan provided
> >Chinese langugage cl*****, they will be biased toward ROC. But then
> >China got into this business. China is able to out competed Taiwan in
> >servicing their needs.
>
> I think we don't have to care too much about the media circus. It's
> all hot air with no real substance. It's designed to sway the public
> opinion by giving viewers the false impression that something real is
> actually going on. I seriously doubt how many westerners actually send
> their money to those lamas. From the look of it, their money all comes
> from the CIA.
Western media is in deed more the west's problem than China's problem.
But they are doing what they do to please their audience and readers.
And they will continue until their audence and readers have changed
their perception on Tibet's situation.
>>
> >> >> As for communication, in my personal opinion, all bets are off
until=
> >> >> the west is ready to sit down to speak as friends again.
>
> >> >They don't have to speak as friends over Tibet. They will pretend to
> >> >be the inpartial third party justice advocate.
>
> >> Nope. International jury is absolutely unnecessary. A slight hint of
> >> Chinese influence or connection can ensure such jury decision to be
> >> entirely anti-China. Otherwise, it would not be admitted as evidence
> >> no matter what it says. Again, we do not play western game. We have
> >> learned and understood the west game, that's why we are going to make
> >> new rules to set up our own game.
>
> >They are not really impartial third parties. They have their own
> >ulterior motives. But they will claim to be impartial anyway.
>
> Then that's even more reason not to trust them at all.
Agree. I did not suggest China should trust them at all. Every country
is for itself.
>
> >> >> China must
> >> >> prepare the worst in order to avoid the worst. If the west
continues=
> >> >> on this dangerous road like what they did about the WMD in Iraq,
the=
n
> >> >> national mobilization for possible war should not be ruled out as
> >> >> necessary measures.
>
> >> >It would not be like that at all. But the west are not going back
down=
> >> >on this issue. They don't have to. In some sense, China was lucky.
> >> >There were some international effort at 1950/51 and 1959. But these
> >> >never came to anything because of Indian influence. In addition,
> >> >Euopean countries themselves had a lot of skeletons in their own
> >> >cupboards. They over the 1987 riots because the west needed the
China
> >> >card. But it will be different from now on. They will keep using
Tibet=
> >> >for anything they can imagine. Not because China are weaker. But
China=
> >> >are stronger and the west, including America, are on the decline.
The
> >> >Tibetan issue will become more and more profitble as China's
strenght
> >> >will make it a more visible target
>
> >> We can look at this from another side. The west is providing the
> >> Chinese government a free service for uniting and mobilizing the
> >> country. The reason the west keeps warning China about nationalistic
> >> fever is because they want to attack the Chinese government without
> >> causing such strong nationalism among the Chinese people. They want
to
> >> keep the Chinese people dumb while they are destabilizing the Chinese
> >> government piece by piece. I think Chinese nationalism which is the
> >> direct result of western attack on China is the best answer to the
> >> west. We should encourage it, protect it, and make sure the west can
> >> understand it's their own making. To mobilize a country of 1.3
billion
> >> is never easy, but the western biased media has done it. We should be
> >> happy about it. If they want a game of war so badly, they have got
it.
>
> >However, China is not at war with another country. And I don't think
> >any country want to fight a physical war with China over Tibet. The
> >people's attention and energy could be better deployed elsewhere than
> >in natioalism.
>
> I don't see anything wrong with nationalism. With proper organization,
> I think nationalism can become a strong Chinese voice that can tell
> the west to shut the **** up.
The key word is "proper." A part of problem is this: China is still
poor, relatively speaking. To the degree that it encourage to be more
productive, more innovative and become better persons, it is great.
Asking the west to shut up would be less cost effective.
> We don't want nationalistic fever that
> causes violent demonstrations. But well organized civil demonstration
> and public lecturing to expose western hypocrisy can be a very
> effective tool to mobilize/educate people and scare the **** out of
> those western imperialists.
The problem is that the west, at present, does not see themselves as
imperialists. Rahter, they see themselves as the savior of victimized
people such as the Tibetans.
> >> >> It is absolutely essential that China does not back down.
>
> >> >No. Not to "Free Tibet" nor to the theocratic monks nor to the
> >> >westerners.
>
> >> This is where we make a stand to stop any future attacks from the
> >> west. We will not give them the time to instigate the stupid western
> >> public into a war against China. We disrupt their strategy by giving
> >> them what they want before they are ready for it.
>
> >> >> For friends, we offer them our best. For enemies, we will
> >> >> give them our worst.
>
> >> >> China does not beg. All the western nations can go to hell
including=
> >> >> the Olympics!- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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