On May 1, 4:58 am, "fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On 5=D4=C21=C8=D5, =C9=CF=CE=E79=CA=B131=B7=D6, bmo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 30, 5:58 pm, "fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On 5=D4=C21=C8=D5, =C9=CF=CE=E73=CA=B122=B7=D6, bmo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > > On Apr 30, 8:34 am, "fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <fyfp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > When people refuse to face truth, all sides can keep arguing
endle=
ssly
> > > > > and there will be no result.
>
> > > > > I think the truth regarding Tibet is as follows:
> > > > > (1) CCP did free the slaves in Tibet when it first came to Tibet
> > > > > (2) Mao did turn the Tibetans, together with the people in other
> > > > > provinces of China, into slaves again for a new slave owner
named =
Mao.
> > > > > (3) CCP is now called Chinese Capitalist Party and is doing a
> > > > > wonderful job in lifting many Tibetans out of poverty and
turning =
them
> > > > > into petty bourgeois.
>
> > > > > While the Tibet independence activists refuse to admit (1) and
(3)=
,
> > > > > the nationalist Chinese students refuse to admit (2), and the
West=
> > > > > refuses to admit (3).
>
> > > > There is also
> > > > (4) Many Tibetans in Tibet are unhappy with Chinese rule
>
> > > > The Chinese government and its apologists like LT Lee refuse to
admi=
t
> > > > (4).
>
> > > >http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/04/the-wishes-of-a-tibetan/
>
> > > > > So what is the point of debate? Might as well call it
adjourned.
>
> > > > > Lunch time!
>
> > > > Or admit that 1-4 are all true and try to understand that China
need=
s
> > > > to acknowledge that there is a big problem there. The West should
> > > > accept (3) and I think in general it has. But by denying (4) the
> > > > Chinese government denies reality. This inevitably leads to big
> > > > problems because the society is not anywhere nearly as
"harmonious" =
as
> > > > the Chinese government says it is.
>
> > > There had to be a thick layer of discontent before it could be
ignited=
> > > to cause so much destruction. I am not sure if this level of
> > > discontent is due to the 'Chinese rule' and whether the discontent
> > > would have disappeared under the rule of Dalai Lama. What I can do
is=
> > > to speculate on the reason. I think the reason is that many
Tibetans
> > > feel they have been marginalized in the modernization process. I
> > > heard from a very authoritative source that most businesses in Lhasa
> > > are owned by non-natives such as the Hans and the Muslims. That
said,=
> > > it would simply suggest that the central government has not done a
> > > satisfactory job in terms of income redistribution in order to even
> > > out the fallouts from economic development. In the West, there are
> > > programs such as Affirmative Action programs meant to redress the
> > > issue, and have been there with various debatable outcomes.
>
> > > On the other hand, too much government interference can cause the
> > > natives to become a bunch of welfare recipients, or something no one
> > > wants to see...
>
> > > Thus the issue does not have much to do with human rights, religious
> > > freedom and the other jazz....
>
> > It is at least partially about religion and human rights. Even though
> > the Chinese government tries to keep the rest of the world from
> > getting info about Tibet, it's pretty clear from what has gotten out
> > that Tibetans are unhappy and want the Dalai Lama to return.-
=D2=FE=B2=
=D8=B1=BB=D2=FD=D3=C3=CE=C4=D7=D6 -
>
> > - =CF=D4=CA=BE=D2=FD=D3=C3=B5=C4=CE=C4=D7=D6 -
>
> There are two issues here:
> (1)Tibetans are unhappy. But how unhappy are they? What is the % of
> people who are unhappy?
The exact number is hard to get because for obvious reasons it is hard
to get info out of Tibet. But if you make an honest effort to get info
it becomes clear that the answer is "a lot".
> (2)The Tibetans who are power and wealth conscious are certainly not
> welcoming back DL.
I disagree. It is possible to be spiritual and interested in acquiring
wealth. If this is a foreign concept to you then maybe you have more
to learn.
> And there are not that few of them inside Tibet.
> The whole notion that Tibet would become a peaceful and tranquil
> Shangreli once DL descends upon Potola is a Hollywood fiction and does
> not match reality.
That is a straw man. That is not the claim. But it certainly would
help the situation if the Dalai Lama returned. There would be much
work to do but in the long run it would benefit both Tibetans and
Chinese.
> Tibetans need modernization like anyone else.
> I know some Tibetans in HK. They are no more spiritual than you and i.
Speak for yourself. And spirituality need not exclude modernization.
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