Re: More ***bric Grammar

"Bob and Doris Jones" <bobianjones@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:8VSXe.655$0E5.626@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> allan connochie wrote:
> > "Bob and Doris Jones" <bobianjones@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> > news:v%UWe.51066$FA3.15094@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >>allan connochie wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Bob and Doris Jones" <bobianjones@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >>>news:s3LWe.49548$FA3.41768@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Not at all. You have mixed events separated by centuries as if they
> >>occurred at the same time in your post - that is the stuff of fairy
tales.
> >
> >
> > No I haven't.
>
> What date was Hadrians Wall abandoned (i.e. the overrun event) ? Think
> about your obvious historical blunder.

What historical blunder?  What about Hadrian's Wall?  It's simplistic in
the
extreme to suggest that the only reason the Romans left Britain was
because
of Pictish raids.  And that is what they were.........raids.  There is no
evidence at all, or even suggestion, that there was Pictish settlement in
Brigantian territory in northern England.  I repeat if you have some
serious
evidence suggesting otherwise then let's have it.  Geographically of
course
Hadrian's Wall is a long way off Pictish territory.  In the east it's not
even near the Scottish border never mind Fife or Perth****re.  The modern
county of Northumberland lies between the wall and the border.  Then there
is the entire Scottish Borders; the Lothians and a little matter of the
Firth of Forth before you reach what was Pictish territory.  The northern
Antonine Wall was the boundary between the northern tribes who later
emerged
as the Picts, and the Brittonic tribes of southern Scotland which later
formed the Strathclyde and Gododdin kingdoms among other units.




>
> I've simply stated the obvious fact that if any significant
> > movements of people from the area once known as Pictland (that is the
area
> > in Scotland north of the Antonine line excepting that part known as
> > Dalriada) into northern England occurred then it happened in the
Industrial
> > Revolution period and after.  We know that many Scots move into
England
> > during this period.  There is no such Dark Age evidence, or even
tradition,
> > for any such settlement from Pictland into northern England.  You've
just
> > made it up.  Or else someone else has and you've fallen for it.
> >
>
> How does the mixture of peoples at this stage in an industrial melting
> pot give rise to a greater concentration of red-haired people than the
> original ?

I'm not stating that red haired people in northern England are necessarily
descended from Scots.  You suggested that.  What I said was that if it
were
so (which I'd refute anyway) then it would be much more likely to come
from
the Industrial Revolution and after (when we know there was significant
folk
movement south into the emerging cities) than coming from a Pictish
settlement of Brigantian territory (for which there is no evidence or even
tradition of).



> > Quite frankly this is nonsense.  There is no evidence of any succesful
> > Pictish settlement in northern England.
>
> The genetic legacy of the highest percentage of red hair of any sizable
> area in the world cannot just be dismissed. The only people described in
> history with this characteristic were the Picts.

The point is that the Picts were not a seperate people at the time of the
arrival of the Romans.  They were simply British tribes up north.  They
gradually formed into the Pictish confederations and became seperated over
time from the Britonnic tribes south of the Antonine Wall.  Are you really
suggesting that north of the artificial frontier was where all the red
heads
lived and a couple of miles to the south there were none? Have you
evidence
that the Picts were genetically different from the Votadini who were in
turn
different from the Brigantes of northern England?  Common sense says that
is
ludicrous.  I can live with the suggestion that the further north you go
the
more incidence there is of red hair.  No problems with that but it's a
different thing to suggest any red haired incidence in nothern England is
down to some made up Pictish folk movement.



Allan