Re: More ***bric Grammar

This raises an interesting point concerning the Antonine Wall. Was it 
maintained by the local people after the Roman's abandoned it?
"allan connochie" <allan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:4330489e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Bob and Doris Jones" <bobianjones@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:8VSXe.655$0E5.626@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> allan connochie wrote:
>> > "Bob and Doris Jones" <bobianjones@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> > news:v%UWe.51066$FA3.15094@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >>allan connochie wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>"Bob and Doris Jones" <bobianjones@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >>>news:s3LWe.49548$FA3.41768@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>Not at all. You have mixed events separated by centuries as if they
>> >>occurred at the same time in your post - that is the stuff of fairy
> tales.
>> >
>> >
>> > No I haven't.
>>
>> What date was Hadrians Wall abandoned (i.e. the overrun event) ? Think
>> about your obvious historical blunder.
>
> What historical blunder?  What about Hadrian's Wall?  It's simplistic in

> the
> extreme to suggest that the only reason the Romans left Britain was 
> because
> of Pictish raids.  And that is what they were.........raids.  There is
no
> evidence at all, or even suggestion, that there was Pictish settlement
in
> Brigantian territory in northern England.  I repeat if you have some 
> serious
> evidence suggesting otherwise then let's have it.  Geographically of 
> course
> Hadrian's Wall is a long way off Pictish territory.  In the east it's
not
> even near the Scottish border never mind Fife or Perth****re.  The modern
> county of Northumberland lies between the wall and the border.  Then
there
> is the entire Scottish Borders; the Lothians and a little matter of the
> Firth of Forth before you reach what was Pictish territory.  The
northern
> Antonine Wall was the boundary between the northern tribes who later 
> emerged
> as the Picts, and the Brittonic tribes of southern Scotland which later
> formed the Strathclyde and Gododdin kingdoms among other units.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I've simply stated the obvious fact that if any significant
>> > movements of people from the area once known as Pictland (that is the
> area
>> > in Scotland north of the Antonine line excepting that part known as
>> > Dalriada) into northern England occurred then it happened in the
> Industrial
>> > Revolution period and after.  We know that many Scots move into
England
>> > during this period.  There is no such Dark Age evidence, or even
> tradition,
>> > for any such settlement from Pictland into northern England.  You've
> just
>> > made it up.  Or else someone else has and you've fallen for it.
>> >
>>
>> How does the mixture of peoples at this stage in an industrial melting
>> pot give rise to a greater concentration of red-haired people than the
>> original ?
>
> I'm not stating that red haired people in northern England are
necessarily
> descended from Scots.  You suggested that.  What I said was that if it 
> were
> so (which I'd refute anyway) then it would be much more likely to come 
> from
> the Industrial Revolution and after (when we know there was significant 
> folk
> movement south into the emerging cities) than coming from a Pictish
> settlement of Brigantian territory (for which there is no evidence or
even
> tradition of).
>
>
>
>> > Quite frankly this is nonsense.  There is no evidence of any
succesful
>> > Pictish settlement in northern England.
>>
>> The genetic legacy of the highest percentage of red hair of any sizable
>> area in the world cannot just be dismissed. The only people described
in
>> history with this characteristic were the Picts.
>
> The point is that the Picts were not a seperate people at the time of
the
> arrival of the Romans.  They were simply British tribes up north.  They
> gradually formed into the Pictish confederations and became seperated
over
> time from the Britonnic tribes south of the Antonine Wall.  Are you
really
> suggesting that north of the artificial frontier was where all the red 
> heads
> lived and a couple of miles to the south there were none? Have you 
> evidence
> that the Picts were genetically different from the Votadini who were in 
> turn
> different from the Brigantes of northern England?  Common sense says
that 
> is
> ludicrous.  I can live with the suggestion that the further north you go

> the
> more incidence there is of red hair.  No problems with that but it's a
> different thing to suggest any red haired incidence in nothern England
is
> down to some made up Pictish folk movement.
>
>
>
> Allan
>
>