Re: Breton, Cornish & French

allan connochie wrote:
> "The Highlander" <micheil@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>
news:a59cc2bf-4c37-4d60-99e9-602a4fea9e2c@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Jan 1, 11:30 am, "allan connochie" <conncoh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> "guy" <guyswetten...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>
>>>
news:b65bdfa8-3935-4cf0-930a-88ff07227f54@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On 1 Jan, 09:32, HardySpicer <gyansor...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 1, 5:20 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>> Why, for example, is Breton a close relative of Cornish and not
>>>>>> French?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --- Paul J. Gans
>>>> I believe the Celtic people were pushed South (some of them) into
>>>> Wales,Cornwall and across the channel into France. Quite by whom I
>>>> have forgotten - the Anglo Saxons?
>>> The Bretons were a British people (hey! that is where the name comes
>>> from) driven out of SW Britain by the AngloSaxons. IIRC the last
>>> Cornish speaker died in the 17C
>>>
>>> Wouldn't the 17thC be far too early? In "Cornwall's History by Philip 
>>> Payton
>>> he suggests there were around an estimated 5,000 speakers at the start
of
>>> the 18thC. He says that as a spoken vernacular it had died out
sometime
>>> before 1800. Dolly Pentreath died in 1777 and is often claimed to be
the
>>> last Cornish speaker but she was survived by others (eg William
Bodinar 
>>> dec
>>> 1789) who also knew the language as it was spoken. John Davey who died
in
>>> 1891 was said to have some Cornish though I don't think it is
suggested 
>>> he
>>> was a native speaker as such.
>>>
>>> Allan
>> There are many Cornish people now learning Cornish.
> 
> There are indeed speakers of the revived Cornish. Two variants I think!
> 
> Allan 
> 
> 

 From "The Story of the Cornish Language" by Peter Berresford Ellis (Tor 
Mark Press, Redruth):

"Of John Davey of Zennor who died in 1891, it was claimed that was the 
last speaker of the language. ... Davey it was re****ted could hold 
conversations on many topics in Cornish. He also sang various 
traditional Cornish songs.

It would seem, then that there were at least a small number of Cornish 
who had learned the language, or phrases of it, from their parents. From 
this evidence it can safely be said that the last native speakers did 
not die out until the end of the nineteenth century."

In a sense Cornish never died out because the Cornish revivalist couple 
Henry Jenner and Kitty Lee were already active reviving the language 
from 1873. Henry's mother-in-law learned to say the Lord's Prayer and 
Creed in Cornish at her school in Penzance - she died in 1879 aged 57.

My own grandmother remembers Cornish country folk coming to the family 
shop in Truro speaking the language.

Two of our local Bards of the Cornish Gorsedd tell me that the 2 
variants you talk of are:

1. Kernewek Kemmyn (Common Cornish) used by 80% of speakers and taught 
in the school system - it has become by far the dominant form of the 
language.

2. Unified used by the Bards of the Gorsedd in ceremonies - it is has 
become the "Liturgical" form of the language.