Dan Christensen wrote:
> On Mar 31, 5:06 pm, PL <pl.nos...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> [snipping ****tions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
> to bother with]
Note how Dan Christensen snips all links to the thread referred to.
This is why: he created a selection of snippets out of context and from
various messages.
On the facts: what Dan snipped:
Nope.
another lie of Dan Christensen exposed in this message below I show that
a couple of messages earlier in the thread I actually gave the prices of
food in the other channels available.
The message quoted:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/51d3f01faa597d79?dmode=source
This is again a typical example of how Dan Christensen operates: he lies
about what people said and slanders them. (for more see the facts on his
"lobbyist" lie below)
Quote (Dan starting, my reply following)
>>> It is common knowledge. If you are
>>> actually going to deny it, let's see even one re****t that says
Cubans
>>> can only get food from the rationing (libretta) system as you claim.
>> Another lie exposed.
>
> Your lie, Mr. Lobbyist. You wrote:
>
> "At least 13 percent of the population is clinically undernourished,
> as the state's food rationing system now provides for only a week to
> 10 days of basic nutritional needs each month."
Yep.
The statement above is correct and in no way it claims there are no
other sources.
I have often enough written about the high prices in the "divisa" shops
and the farmers markets, also in this thread:
Prices for any additional food:
The City of Santiago has about eight "private" government-food outlets,
mostly all having the same prices. Some examples of the prices follow in
Cuban pesos per pound except as otherwise noted:
****k including bone and fat, $17.
Lamb, $15.
One banana, $0.50.
"Malanga" (a tuber), $3.50.
Yucca, $0.80.
Sweet potato, $0.80.
Seven "fongo" bananas, $1.
Cu***ber, $2.80
Eight tomatoes (for salad), $ 5.
Rice, $5.
Any kind of beans, $10.
One onion (for salad), $4.
One onion (for cooking), $ 2.50
A handful of chilies (for cooking), $ 1.
One head of garlic, $ 2.50
1/4 of a small pumpkin, $ 1.
Ten small limes, $1.
Three small plantains, $1.
All products listed above are consistently found at the "private" outlets
as
well as eggplant, all citric fruits, tomato puree, string beans, okra,
corn
meal and all fruits in season. There are long lines at the "private"
establishments only when there is a big sale on some product, such as when
the "fongo" plantain is for sale. This type of market does not carry beef,
milk or its by-products, chocolate, coffee, salt, sugar, wheat flour or
pasta. None of these products are sold in any of the stores that take
Cuban
currency with exceptions noted above.
http://cubafreepress.org/art1/cubap000111g.html
HAVANA, April 7 (Lucas Garve, CPI) - People with medically-prescribed
diets
complain that chicken at controlled prices is unavailable at the same
establishments that sell chicken quarters at 23 pesos a pound.
That is about 11% of a monthly salary.
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y00/apr00/12e2.htm
But prices, though reasonable by American standards, are too steep for
Cubans trying to live on a basic government salary of between $7 to $9 a
month. A pound of red or black beans costs more than 65 cents. Rice is 22
cents a pound. Vegetables range between 13 and 32 cents a pound. Four
pounds
of salt ****k is $1.13. "If you buy food one month, you don't buy clothes,
and if you buy clothes, you don't buy food," said one woman, who asked not
to be identified.
http://207.158.9.187/caribbean/cuba/011199cuba-econ.html
All 4 days ago in this very thread Mr. Serial Liar
You are so ridiculous.
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fb7bb7da0080f88b?hl=nl&&q=prices+for+additional+food
end of quote.
Again that over and over exposed lie from Canadian Stalinist Dan
Christensen.
>>> Last week you
>>> suggested that Cubans could only get food from the rationing system.
>> (snip)
>>
>> Nope.
>
> [snip]
>
> From the thread, "Cuba Revolution worth the price:"
Note: no link
Why: these are selected snippets from various messages that Dan removes
from context and stitches together in to another pack of lies.
the reason why is explained at the end of this message.
> DC: Again, the rationing system provides only about a quarter of the
> Cuban diet. Quit trying to pretend it is all they get. Once again, we
> see what a truly desperate liar you are!
>
> PL: And you can't explain where the rest comes from. Not [note?] that
> "one quarter" is the equivalent of 8 days at best.
Note again how Dan Christensen again does not provide a link to the
message.
Note also that he - as always - snips large parts to hide his lies.
The link:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/2b04938f787d8e42?hl=nl&&q=is+the+equivalent+of+8+days+at+best++author%3Apl
If you read through this message you will see that the reason why Dan
Christensen doesn't post any link is very simple: the "cuts and pasts"
snippets from various messages and puts them together in a desperate
attempt to mislead people.
Other snippets come from other messages in this thread and are
selectively removed from their context.
> (Here, you effectively deny that the rationing system provides only a
> quarter of the food intake,
nope.
I say clearly that it provides only a quarter of what they need as I
always have.
> and suggest that most Cubans are barely
> surviving on 8 days of food rations per month!)
I don't "suggest" anything.
> DC: Other markets, idiot! If you had any local knowledge at all, you
> would
> know.
>
> PL: Like which and at what prices.
Clearly indicating that there are other sources as I had mentioned
before - with prices - and thereby exposing your lie that I would ever
have claimed there weren't any.
> (You persist in your lie.)
Nope.
You persist in your.
> DC: Various state and private markets. It is common knowledge. If you
> are actually going to deny it, let's see even one re****t that says
> Cubans can only get food from the rationing (libretta) system as you
> claim.
I never claimed that Cuban can only get food from the rationing as this
thread clearly shows.
Another lie of Dan Christensen, SCC's Stalinist Serial Liar exposed
> At this point, perhaps after a quick scan of internet for such a
> re****t, you make a quick climb-down, "I never claimed that Cubans can
> only get food from the rationing."
No climb down.
I just exposed your lie.
> But it was too late. Your complete lack of local knowledge (or
> honesty) was clear for all to see.
actually your deperate raving antics only have exposed the fact that you
are a liar and that I have indeed a lot of local knowledge as you
yourself have admitted in messages that didn't go to SCC but to some
e-groups where you though nobody in SCC would see your admission.
>> I have often enough written about the high prices in the "divisa" shops
>> and the farmers markets, also in this thread:
>>
> [snip]
>
> You would have us believe that most Cubans cannot afford to shop there
actually those that have no access to dollars nearly can't.
the prices are to high.
One litre of cooking oil is CUC 1.5 which is about 36 pesos, 10% of a
monthly wage.
But thanks for admitting you lied when you claimed I said Cubans had no
other sources.
> -- that they are somehow forced to live on 8 days of rations stretched
> over the whole month! (See above.)
Never said that as anyone can see.
I have always spoke of all sources of food comrade Dan. From the libreta
to the divisa shops over the farmers markets and the black market.
> Do you deny this now? Will you
> finally confirm that the average Cuban gets only about one quarter of
> his or her food intake from the rationing system?
they only get a quarter of what they need comrade Dan.
That is what all sources say.
What pro****tion of his total food intake that is depends on what people
can buy additionally in the black market, the farmers market and the
divisa shops.
All very expensive for Cubans.
> And that they
> purchase the rest at various private or state-owned markets?
That is a lie as most Cuban can't get all the food they need.
A lie that is exposed by data from Cuba itself that states that Cubans
need 1600 peso a month to meet their basic needs.
A lie exposed by data from Cuba that shows that 75% of Cuban families
can't make ends meet.
But why don't you post a budget for a family of four that get 25% of the
food they need from the rationing and have to buy the rest of the food
and pay all of the other bills form their salary.
Note that for years now I have asked you to give us a budget for a
family of 4 in Cuba showing how they make ends meet.
You never dared to even attempt to provide one as you know it will
expose your lies, but provide one and prov" me wrong (see Mr Orange -
Yellow and Red - fail to do so for the 500th time)
In Fact: Cuban economists have calculated that a family of 4 needs 1600
pesos a month in Cuba.
The average salary is less than a quarter of that. 75% of Cuban families
can't make ends meet even though they spend 75% of their income on food.
Cuba toca fondo
El 75% de las familias no llega a fin de mes mientras el Gobierno de
Raúl Castro se propone mejorar las duras condiciones de vida
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Cuba/toca/fondo/elpepuint/20070714elpepiint_1/Tes
Los bajos salarios y la crisis en Cuba
Una familia necesita 1,600 pesos al mes, pero el sueldo promedio es de
387 pesos
Redacción de La Opinión
28 de julio de 2007
http://www.laopinion.com/latinoamerica/?rkey=00000000000002034980
> Mr. Lobbyist
Again that over and over exposed lie from Canadian Stalinist Dan
Christensen.
You fell flat on your face once before when you claimed I had been
"lobbying" people In Geneva while your pal "cuba libre" that stalked me
then showed from an IP that I was in Santiago de Cuba at the time.
Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
A real loser you are.
Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous campaign:
- Frustration
I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I blew
his "cover". In SCC he tried to ****tray himself as an "independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question in
a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show his
lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those with
"local knowledge".
In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often forgot to keep up the
presence and made him show his hand and true nature:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
..............................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca
"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the cir***stances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca
That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that the
false claims he made about others (sup****t of genocide, torture, abuses,
..............)in fact only applied to him.
I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, sup****t an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en
HIS own words:
'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith
said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United
States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823
Then there is the issue of his lying website: I had pages removed (for
violations of law, slander, ...), have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies, remove
lying caption from pictures, ...)and have in general exposed the lies on
it (on Amnesty International for example)
What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its sup****t for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Link to the "re****t": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB
where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.
Quote:
"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."
In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.
" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
en of quote
- Dogmatic hatred.
Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were to
defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers democracy"
under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the re****ts from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was being
censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that those
that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care about a
third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably to make
himself feel that he is "im****tant" and to explain away his complete
propaganda failure (****traying himself as "overcome by unsurmountable
institutional odds").
- Personal hate and the "rat pack"
Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove after
a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he had posted
there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the target
of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine)and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blade or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats in
France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net )and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" went to jail for 6 months for a whole series of
abuses. A Spanish "subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a surprise
coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.
But then in the end this is what it boils down to:
those that don't have rational arguments find themselves exposed as the
liars they are. When that happens all they have left are the old slander
tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the hope that
they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly he
would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on) are
reduced to that they expose" their own failure.
Fine by me.
PL
"The Cuban government is based on lies and cheap propaganda. That is why
it is afraid of words and the truth."
Raul Rivero, April 2006, University of Sevilla, Spain
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