On May 12, 8:07=A0am, Frank Bures <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Robin wrote:
> > Kujebaku, what do you think?
>
> I am not Kujebak, but I live in Canada, which is mentioned farther in
the
> article, so I will point certain differences between the case described
an=
d
> reality in Ontario.
>
>
>
> > This is a tale of pay or die that recurs again and again all over our
> > country and only in our country in the entire western world.
>
> > Advised by her physician to go to M.D. Anderson for urgent treatment
> > of her leukemia, Mrs. Lisa Kelly was told she had to pay $105,000 up
> > front before being admitted. The hospital declared her limited
> > insurance unacceptable.
>
> You have to present your OHIP card _before_ any medical treatment.
=A0That=
> includes even 5 minute consultation with a physician. =A0No card, no
> treatment. =A0Notes to that effect are posted in all medical
establishment=
s.
>
>
>
> > Sitting in the business office with seriously advanced cancer, she
> > asked herself =96 =93Are they going to send me home?=94 =93Am I going
to=
die?=94
>
> Recent case from Ontario:
>
> A patient with advancing brain tumor was in the latest stages of still
> operable disease. =A0It took 1 year of waiting in various queues to get
th=
e
> diagnosis. =A0Immediate surgery was scheduled, where "immediate" =3D 6
mon=
ths
> of additional waiting. =A0If was obvious that the patient will not live
to=
> see the surgery. =A0Patient went to Buffalo, NY, where he received the
> surgery in a week or so and is now perfectly healthy. =A0OHIP _refused_
to=
> pay his medical expenses in Buffalo, NY saying that the surgery there
was
> not necessary as the same surgery was offered in Ontario. =A0The fact
that=
to
> perform surgery on a carcass makes no sense was completely lost on them.
> The patient had to re mortgage his home and is now facing $100k+ in
debts.=
> His OHIP card he payed for his whole life is completely worthless.
>
>
>
> > Back to the 52 year old, Lisa Kelly. She and her husband returned with
> > a check for $45,000. After a blood test and biopsy, the hospital
> > oncologist urged admittance quickly. Then the hospital demanded an
> > additional $60,000-$45,000 just for the lab tests and $15,000 for part
> > of the cost of the treatment.
>
> > To shorten the story, she received chemotherapy for over a year. Often
> > her appointment was =93blocked=94 until she made another payment.
>
> There are certain forms of chemotherapy that are not covered by OHIP,
> mostly because they are more expensive than others and because they
work.
> If you look at it realistically, what is the financial motivation of
OHIP?=
> =A0 Is it to take care of a patient if chronically ill expending large
sum=
s
> of money in the process, or is it to let patient die by refusing
treatment=
> or introducing lengthy queues that would result in patient's death
before
> it is his turn for treatment? =A0Which solution is financially more
> advantageous for OHIP?
>
>
>
> > In a particularly grotesque incident, she was hooked up to a
> > chemotherapy pump, but the nurses were not allowed to change the chemo
> > bag until Mr. Kelly made another payment.
>
> At least she could have made the payment. =A0In Ontario they would
refuse =
her
> treatment outright no matter if she could pay or not. =A0It would be
enoug=
h
> if the treatment was not on the official list of sanctioned treatments.
> Many chemotherapy and other pharmacological treatments are not on the
list=
..
> =A0 In fact, nothing that was discovered or brought in the medical
practic=
e
> in the last 20 or so years is on the list. =A0For goodness sake, the
blood=
> prostate test, recommended to all men after 50, is NOT on the list of
OHIP=
> covered procedures. =A0Fortunately you can get it in private =A0labs for
$=
40.
> However, you cannot get a chemotherapy in an Ontario hospital if it is
not=
> on the OHIP list. =A0It is ILLEGAL to pay for medical treatment in
Canada =
and
> it is ILLEGAL for a physician to accept a payment from a patient as long
a=
s
> the same physician accepts payments from government run "insurance".
>
> > Imagine anything like Mrs. Kelly=92s predicament and pressures
occurring=
> > in Canada,
>
> You do not have to imagine. =A0If she were in Canada, she would probably
b=
e
> dead by now.
>
> > These countries have universal single payer health insurance. No one
> > dies because they cannot afford health care.
>
> No. =A0But many die waiting in various queues or because they were
refused=
> life saving treatment because it was not on the list of sanctioned
treatme=
nts.
>
> > In the U.S. the drug companies charge their highest prices in the
> > world, even though we, the taxpayers, subsidized them in large ways.
> > In other countries like Mexico and Canada, they cannot get away with
> > such drug price gouging, with a pay or die ultimatum.
>
> This information (regarding Canada) is completely false. =A0It is true
tha=
t
> US prices are higher then Canadian, but the reason is not "drug price
> gouging". =A0The reason is very complex system of agreements, patent
polic=
ies
> and covert subsidies between governments and pharmaceutical industry.
> What the pharmaceutical industry does not get through direct pricing, it
> gets through various back doors, secretly subsidized by gullible
taxpayers=
..
> =A0 The overall income per unit of medication is the same in Canada as
it =
is
> in the States. =A0The difference is that in the State a patient actually
s=
ees
> what is he paying, in Canada the same patient pays through his taxes.
>
>
>
> > In the U.S., computerized billing fraud and abuse cost over $200
> > billion last year, according to the GAO arm of Congress. In other
> > counties, single payer prevents such looting.
>
> I do not know which "counties" has the author in mind. =A0But in
countries=
> like Canada fraud is pervasive. =A0The widely known fact is that while
> Ontario has some 10 million citizens including babies, there are some 15
> million OHIP cards in circulation. =A0You can buy a valid OHIP card in
> Buffalo, NY for some $1k.
>
> > In other western countries, medical outcomes for children and adults
> > and paid family leave are far superior to that of the U.S. The World
> > Health Organization ranks the US health care system 37th in the world.
>
> What is a "medical outcome"?
>
> I wonder why, if US is in the 37th place in the world, all Canadian
> business and political leaders go there for their medical needs?
> It is widely known fact that previous Canadian Liberal prime ministers
> received their medical care in various famous US clinics.
>
> > When a friend showed the Journal=92s article to a Dutch visitor, the
> > latter blurted in anger =96 =93you are a nation of sheep.=94 Not a
very
> > flattering description of =93the land of the free, home of the
brave.=94=
>
> I would not talk about a "nation of sheep" if I were a Dutch. =A0At
least =
US
> government does not ban movies and does not curb the freedom of speech
> because she is completely terrified of Islamic terrorists.
>
> > Last month after being in remission, Lisa Kelly=92s leukemia has come
> > back.
>
> As I said, if she were in Canada, she'd be dead by now. =A0Leukemia
> definitely would not have the op****tunity to come back.
>
> Cheers
> Frank
>
> Homework: =A0Rent a movie called "Barbarian Invasions". =A0Re****t back
on
> Canadian health care system.
>
> --
>
> <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
hey, thanks for remind me what I certainly don't miss. I left Canada
8 years ago after living there for about 9 years so I think I had the
op****tunity to compare both medical systems on quite an intimate basis
and I can tell you that the systems are simply uncomparable. The
quality and accessibility of healthcare in US is vastly superior to
the government racket in Canada. Not that it's perfect but every
imperfection I see is sooner or later revealed to be related to some
sort of governement meddling.
I have happily forgotten all about it but your post brought back few
memories.
When I moved to States and my family was still back in Canada during
the "transitional" period, my wife needed to see a specialist of some
sort. She called around the Burlington, ON area and was able to
"secure" an appointment for 3 months later. When she told me about
that I called the same type of specialist in Niagara Falls, NY area
and made an appointment for her for next day. She just drove there and
that was the end of it. I was already seeing the benefits of having
the US healtcare back then.
Few years later we had a real serious medical situation in the family
and I remember that every time I sat on the train to Manhattan on my
way to the hospital I thanked god repeatedly that I wasn't still in
Canada where I would have to face the same situation under the
healthcare cir***stances you have described above.
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