Re: The "prison IS university" metaphor - a review

In article <4kf0u3tv1r91ocuvuuasjomc5chi4a6lff@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, tony cooper
<tony_cooper213@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:00:44 +0000 (GMT), David
> <nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> >In article <d650u31fn5dmi40ucav90al66rvpd6quh9@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, tony cooper
> ><tony_cooper213@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >
> >> You are wrong.  The word is, and should be, "clear".  That's not
> >> the error in the sentence. 
> >
> >Sheesh! If you don't want folk to misunderstand you then perhaps you
> >should make it clear what you're on about.
> >
> >Anyhow, I'll have another stab: is it "Democrat Party" that ought to
> >be "Democratic Party"? If so, then perhaps you'd like to have a go
> >at explaining how that differs in essence from, say, calling the
> >Conservative Party the "Tory Party"?

> You're new here, aren't you?  The Democrat/Democratic Party thing was
> a thread topic.  President Bush often calls them the "Democrat
> Party", and many people feel this is a deliberate slur.  Not just in
> this group, but many Americans.  See:
> http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/08/07/060807ta_talk_hertzberg

No. I've been around ucle for quite a while and I don't recall the
Democrat/Democratic Party thing as a thread topic - but then, the
Democratic Party and the Democrat Party don't feature much in UK
politics - although we do have the Liberal Democrats but I don't
suppose you'd know that, or probably even care

> I'm not going to have a go at it because it was well-covered here
> earlier.  

No it wasn't.

> As far as folk understanding me, I suspect that 90% of the people who
> read my post understood exactly what I meant and knew the reference.
> Most of your countrymen who read the post understood because they are
> good at retaining points covered here.  

90% eh? So that means you're entirely happy for im****tant points you're
trying to make to go right over the heads of one tenth of the folk
reading you.

That "Democrat Party" might be seen by some as a deliberate slur is
neither here nor there. The members and sup****ters are presumably happy
to refer to themselves as "Democrats" and not insist on being called
"Democratics".

> >> You see, you don't understand what my point was in that sentence
> >> was because you don't understand the terms we use and why
> >> "different" is a misuse.  If you address us as "Yankee", it's a
> >> misuse in that we think that you think we are something other than
> >> what we are.
> >
> >Not the same thing at all, old chap. If we use the word correctly
> >from our point of view, the fact that you would give it any degree
> >of difference of meaning can never make our use of the word in any
> >way, shape, or form, wrong.

> Let me be gentle, here...your "we" is you and some others.  There are
> many "we" who learn and adjust.  These are people who feel that
> language and usage work best when we iron out those differences and
> use mutually understandable terms.  A great deal of what is posted to
> aue is done to exactly that end.  We - Americans - learn to use the
> terms that you approve, and you - the elseplace people - learn to use
> the terms we approve.    

Okay, so why aren't you - Americans - prepared to learn to use the
terms "Yank" and "Yankee" in the way that we do?

> If you don't choose to learn and adapt, that's your prerogative. 
> But, if not, why bother participating in this group?

Which sentiment answers my last question: Because you - Americans - are
arrogant and condescending, expecting all others to give way to you;
you can't even acknowledge that this thread is crossposted to ucle -
UK.culture.language.english - and that some of the contributors to it
don't see themselves as siting at the feet of their Great American
Cousins in order to learn how to Use English Correctly.

> >> Since you don't understand this, I suggest you stick with "septic"
> >> or "merkin".  At least, with these terms, we understand that you
> >> are using terms you understand correctly.
> >
> >We understand "Yank" and "Yankee" correctly; it might be a different
> >understanding to yours but that doesn't make it wrong. Sheesh! Next
> >you'll be telling me I didn't ought to have biscuits with my
> >afternoon cuppa 'cos Americans won't understand what I'm eating.

> I suggest a McVities digestive.  Also, consider not trying to be too
> clever until you get a feel of the group.  

So, how long does one have to be around "the group" to be allowed to be
as clever as you? And how clever is it to lecture someone else about
how to behave in "the group" when you can't even condescend to
recognise that this thread is actually in two groups?

Your response does nothing but confirm and strengthen the correctness
of the way I use the words "Yank" and "Yankee".

-- 
New Marmite(TM): Not as thick! Not as dark! Not as te!

David - toro-danyo atcost uku fullstop co fullstop uk
http://www.toro-danyo.uku.co.uk/